My BarStory S03E06 - Melanie Beechuk and Lacey Krizman with Matt Besser

“I was just ready to die.”

Those are the words of the HR director at NRS Injury Law Melanie Beechuk, as she stared down from an eight-story balcony. She spent a decade trapped in an abusive relationship and was desperate for a way out. She’s sharing her harrowing story to help other women who may be hiding a terrible secret. Melanie teaches us about the power of hope to truly change lives in this special My BarStory podcast.

CMBA President Matt Besser leads this very personal discussion as part of our In It Together initiative, focusing on mental health in the legal industry. He’s also joined by Lacey Krizman, senior workers' compensation manager at the same firm, and Melanie’s best friend. We’ll hear more from Melanie about her struggles with postpartum depression in our next episode.

Transcript

Matt Besser (00:02):
Hi everybody. This is CMBA President Matt Besser. I'm joined today by two special guests, colleagues at a law firm, each with their own story of perseverance, but whose stories meld together into one about the importance of looking out for each other's mental health in the workplace, and how we as a legal community can bring about cultural change as it relates to mental health. So with that, I'd like to welcome my special guest, Lacey Krizman. And Melanie Beechuk. Why don't you introduce yourselves and, and tell us where you work and what you do.

Melanie Beechuk (00:37):
My name's Melanie Beechuk. . I am the HR director at NRS Injury Law, and I've been there for 10 years.

Lacey Krizman (00:45):
My name is Lacey Krizman. I work at NRS Injury Law. I'm a senior workers' compensation manager, and I've also been there for 10 years.

Matt Besser (00:54):
So I understand that you two started around the same time. Yes. And there's a little bit of a hierarchy in terms of who started first, is that right?

Lacey Krizman (01:03):
<Laugh>? I started first <laugh>,

Matt Besser (01:05):
That's you, Lacey? Yeah. Yes.

Lacey Krizman (01:07):
Okay.

Matt Besser (01:08):
Not, not so much

Lacey Krizman (01:09):
Before. Yeah. We started about a week apart

Matt Besser (01:12):
And, and you two became fast friends. Yes.

Lacey Krizman (01:15):
Yeah. Pretty quickly,

Matt Besser (01:17):
Melanie, you and I, although you started at NRS later, you and I met first before I met Lacey. Yes. You and I met not that long ago at a hiring fair that CMBA was hosting for law students, and you were manning the NRS booth, and I forget how it happened, but, but we pretty quickly came to be talking about mental health. Right, right. And what I remember is, is how open you were about sharing with me, basically a complete stranger that you were a survivor of domestic violence. I was honored that you were willing to share that with me, but I was taken aback by how open you were about it in a good way. Can you tell us about why you are so open about your experience and why you think it's important to be?

Melanie Beechuk (02:08):
First off, we just connected off the bat I thought you were actually looking for a job <laugh>, so

Matt Besser (02:15):
We'll see. We'll see. I got a couple months left in this one.

Melanie Beechuk (02:18):
Yeah. But then when you mentioned, you know, you knew of our office and that you just got done with a podcast it, it just seemed natural for me to open up about my, my goal is to start my own podcast or own podcast. So, and I think it's sometimes you meet people at such perfect time when you don't even expect it. I think that's why Lacey and I really connected. You meet people when you least expect it, when you need them the most. So I think now in my, in my life, I always think that way. I think you meet people for certain reasons, call it fate, call it whatever you want, but I just felt like I was ready. I'm ready to share my story because I want to help people and I want people to be survivors, and I want to empower people, and I want mostly everyone, no matter what they're going through is to not feel alone and that there's help.

Matt Besser (03:20):
Yeah. Lacey, you've had a, a different journey and path through life, but you're pretty open about your experience too. Can you, can you just give us in a nutshell why you are so open about your experience, which is with postpartum depression? Right,

Lacey Krizman (03:38):
Right. Yeah. I mean, I would say along the same lines as what Melanie has to say, I think that people suffer in silence for so long that once you do get your voice, you wanna use it to empower people that might still be in silence. You know, I know for me, I was silent for so long in my battle that once I did get the help that I needed, now I just wanna make sure that I know that there's still people out there that are in the same position I was. So I just wanna be a light for those people.

Matt Besser (04:08):
We're gonna talk a bunch about the importance of supporting each other in the workplace and, and the role we as, as coworkers and the role employers have to play in supporting employee mental health. And, and we'll talk about sort of the role that suffering in silence and isolation plays in, in our mental health struggles. But I thought it might make sense to start with a little more background of each of your own stories to give some context to why you're so passionate about these things, these issues. So, so Melanie, your story goes back a number of years all the way back to your college days, right? Right. As we talked about, you're a survivor of domestic violence. I'm guessing that growing up you never imagined that that would be something that happened to you.

Melanie Beechuk (04:53):
Never. Again, you meet people and I, you always think that the people that you meet are gonna have your best interest at heart because I like to think that I do that. You know, when I meet people, I I'm open and I always give them the benefit of the doubt. And that's how you network. That's how you meet the people that are gonna be in your life, hopefully for a long time. And you know, I was 18, so, you know, I'm sure everybody can relate that everybody at 18 thinks that they're adults <laugh> when they have many things to learn. So I think I met this person, and at the time it, it seemed like they would be a good person in my life. And yes, I, you know, my parents had been together since they were their high school sweethearts. So I was raised, you know, with a great foundation for marriage and love, and having four of us, there's three siblings that, you know, we've had the same parents and they raised us together. And also being raised Catholic divorce isn't really accepted. So I think all of those things, plus just, you know, wanting love and wanting to be loved, sometimes you have blinders on. So it was a lot of different things that happened in that situation.

Matt Besser (06:26):
So the person who who abused you mm-hmm <affirmative>. Started out as your college boyfriend and ultimately be, became your husband, right? Yes. And that was, that was a, a 10 year relationship.

Melanie Beechuk (06:40):
Yes.

Matt Besser (06:42):
How much of that 10 years was abusive in one way or another, now that you look back at it?

Melanie Beechuk (06:49):
I would say for most of it, and it was, you know, it started out emotional mental verbal and then it led to physical. But it, it really started early on. It's, you don't see it, you don't recognize it because you, again, it's somebody you think that loves you.

Matt Besser (07:16):
And you were so young,

Melanie Beechuk (07:17):
So young,

Matt Besser (07:18):
Right. You had somebody you thought you could trust. But there were some behaviors, some tactics that your abuser used to perpetuate this cycle. Can you talk about some of the things that he did that, that allowed him to keep you, keep you locked in that cycle? Mm-Hmm

Melanie Beechuk (07:43):
<Affirmative>. One of the main things which I don't actually think I've ever really acknowledged is isolation. Any person that came into my life or that was in my life, he didn't think they were good for me. And it, it started from the top. I mean, family, friends and it just went on. It was like any person that I, I had in my life, he, he made it seem like they weren't good for me. And he would tell me often, you know, reasons why, to the point where I felt like I had no choice but to cut them out. So I think that is one trait that abusers have is to isolate them from the world because then they, you know, for me, I felt like at one point I, I didn't have anybody but him. So I didn't feel like there was a way out because where was I gonna go? Who was I gonna go to? And I think that was the first trait that the were probably first red flag that I ignored.

Matt Besser (08:48):
And, and the isolation reached the point that he isolated you from your family, right? Yes. How long did you go isolated from your family and, and to what extent?

Melanie Beechuk (08:59):
Yes, I will first say, 'cause I'm sure they will be listening, that I'm sorry. And I love them so much and that thankfully they have forgiven me. But I did not speak to my family for three full years.

Matt Besser (09:16):
I know you feel, 'cause you said it, you, you feel a sense of self blame Yes. And guilt over that. Yes. Even though it was someone else manipulating you. Why do you think that is?

Melanie Beechuk (09:31):
I think I, within the timeframe of our relationship, I, we were young when I met him, so I was still figuring out who I was. And then you bring somebody into your life that then kind of tries to mold you into something that they want you to be. So, I, I lost myself so early on without even fully knowing myself. And I lost who my family knows the most. So this person I was, they knew and then I, I cut them off. So, and I'm thankful that I have such a great support system with them. 'cause I know there are listeners or people that don't have a strong family foundation. So the fact that I, I did and I ignored it, I think I'll always just have, you know, that I'll always blame myself because they didn't deserve that. Forgiveness is huge, being able to forgive people in your life, but I think forgiving yourself is the hardest thing to do.

Matt Besser (10:41):
So let's back up a little bit and talk about how domestic violence works and the cycle of violence. Because, you know, for, for many who have never been in that situation, don't know anyone who's been in that situation, it might be easy to sit back and say, well, you know, the first time somebody hit me, I'd be out the door. It's not that simple, is it? No,

Melanie Beechuk (11:04):
It's not that simple. Part of, you know, abusers is they instill this fear in you because if they think hitting you is okay, if they think any type of physical is abuse is okay, how far will it go? How far can they take it? And I think you instantly get that fear of, am I gonna die? Is he gonna kill me? Are they gonna kill me? You just get used to that because you don't think there's a way out at that point.

Matt Besser (11:39):
I, I remember when we, we talked, one of the things that really struck me was you said that when he would hit you, you would be asking him for forgiveness. Mm-Hmm <affirmative>. Talk us through why that was.

Melanie Beechuk (11:56):
It goes back to the isolation part, the manipulation part. The abuse happens and then all you can think of is the worst case scenario or something else that can happen. And again, it's not, you don't have anybody else in your life because they've isolated you from everything. So you start to think, if I leave, where do I go? Who do I go to? Because you don't have anybody and you blame yourself for that, but really, you know, somebody else made you kind of feel that was your only option. So it's like you're, I used to say, you know, like you're a prisoner in your own home and that is a terrible feeling because your home was supposed to be your safe haven.

Matt Besser (12:52):
There are other things that abusers do to perpetuate this cycle. Right, right. You talked about isolation, you talked about fear. Physical violence is obviously a terrible part of that. There are other ways that, that he controlled and manipulated you. And one of them had to do with when you were alone in the home and he was out of town mm-hmm <affirmative>. You know what I'm talking about?

Melanie Beechuk (13:18):
Yes. That was another trait that I ignored was a controlling factor. And I would be in our house, you know, he traveled a lot for his job and there were times in the winter and everybody knows Ohio winners can be brutal. That he had access to our thermostat and he would completely turn the heat off while I was in the house. And I would realize it was off because it was freezing. And when I would bring it up, you know, he would just say, bundle up. Yeah. Put a blanket on.

Matt Besser (14:00):
So again, it seems so easy that for any of us who haven't been through it, to say, well, if he's outta state and I'm cold, I'm gonna turn up the heat. Mm-Hmm <affirmative>. Again, it's not so easy.

Melanie Beechuk (14:11):
It's not because doing that is almost like you're being defiant. And that usually led to anger and so on.

Matt Besser (14:22):
Yeah. So as part of this cycle, there's abuse and at some point the abuser and the person who's being abused, you know, see that, that there's a problem and, and, and maybe that the abused person is gonna start standing up for themselves. Yes. And the abuser realizes they might be losing control. Yes. You talk about that stage of the cycle.

Melanie Beechuk (14:49):
A lot of it was, you know, know when I started to realize I couldn't, I couldn't live this life anymore. I, I couldn't live this life with him. Mostly because I knew that one of us was probably not gonna make it out alive. It would be materialistic. Things started to happen. Let me buy you a car, let me buy a house for us. Even got to the point where the, you know, bringing a child into this world was a discussion. And that, I think once we got to that discussion, I knew that that was really what I needed to make a, make a choice.

Matt Besser (15:27):
So when you say materialistic things, he would buy you stuff mm-hmm <affirmative>. To try and keep you under his thumb? Mm-Hmm <affirmative>. And, and that would work for a time? Yes.

Melanie Beechuk (15:37):
And then how, unfortunately,

Matt Besser (15:38):
How long would it, would it be before you fell back into the violence part of the cycle or the emotional abuse part?

Melanie Beechuk (15:45):
Not long. Not long at all.

Matt Besser (15:47):
So you mentioned fear is obviously one reason why you stayed. You talked about, you know, the isolation as another piece. What role did denial or shame or, or things like that play in in your story?

Melanie Beechuk (16:06):
Denial was definitely part of it. I was in denial that it would get better. Everybody thinks you can change somebody. Everybody thinks that people can change and people can definitely change. Some people cannot change. And I think that was something that I always, anytime we fought, anytime anything happened, I would just tell myself, it's gonna get better. It's gonna get better, but how, how is it gonna get better love? I mean, I just wanted to be loved. And the way the relationship formed, he made it seem like I deserved it because he loved me. And that was a constant part of our story.

Matt Besser (16:54):
Throughout all this period when it became abusive, how did you assign blame? What, in your mind, was this your fault? Was it his fault? Was it both of your fault? And, and was there a time when you realized, no, this is all his fault?

Melanie Beechuk (17:13):
Yes. I always blamed me. I always, and he, you know, didn't help. I mean, he would make it seem like everything was my fault and that I deserved everything. So I don't know if it was really my thought. I think because over and over when you're told the same thing over and over, it gets stuck in your brain. Yeah. At that point, you know, my self worth was nonexistent.

Matt Besser (17:42):
Did you ever think that this was gonna end with him killing you? Yes. How, how far into the 10 years was that?

Melanie Beechuk (17:52):
Probably my fourth year of college. He had already graduated and he was living in an apartment. And I remember we had, we were having a fight and it got abusive and I didn't wanna live at that point. I felt like dying was better than living. And to the point where I opened, he lived on the eighth floor of the balcony of the apartment building. And I opened the sliding doors and I stood on the balcony because I was ready to just die at that point. And he was there and he watched me and he didn't pull me down and he didn't try. And that was the first time that I was like,

Speaker 4 (18:41):
I,

Melanie Beechuk (18:43):
I'm, I'm gonna die.

Matt Besser (18:47):
What pulled you down off the ledge that day?

Melanie Beechuk (18:54):
My faith in humanity, my faith in there was, I feel like maybe there was a higher power telling me that I wasn't done yet. That I was able to still have goals that I wanted to reach, you know, graduate college, have a career, mostly because my dad had only a few rules growing up. One of them was to go to college and get a degree. So I think I had things that I always wanted to do, to do no matter who was in my life. And that was one of them. So, and I think for a slight moment, because he didn't reach out for me and he didn't say, don't do it, I took a little bit of control back for me that I didn't want, I didn't want him to be the reason that I jumped

Matt Besser (19:49):
At, at that point. He had already been physically violent with you? Yes. And, and you were sort of resigned to the fact that one way or another, this relationship was gonna kill you. Is that right? Yes. And you stayed,

Melanie Beechuk (20:02):
I stayed.

Matt Besser (20:05):
In retrospect, you must now understand that, that that's, that's a pretty common reaction in this sort of dynamic, right? Right. You got out in time. I did you consider yourself one of the lucky ones?

Melanie Beechuk (20:18):
Yes. I say every day that I'm a survivor and I live by that. Yes.

Matt Besser (20:31):
Of all things that ended up breaking this cycle for you it was a broken cell phone,

Melanie Beechuk (20:38):
Right? A broken cell,

Matt Besser (20:39):
A broken, a broken cell phone, broke the cycle. Mm-Hmm <affirmative>. That's a really strange twist of faith <laugh>. And people are gonna need some, some explanation.

Melanie Beechuk (20:47):
Yes. I had gotten a new cell phone and we happened to be out for a work function and, you know, there were other coworkers there. After the function, we went to a bar and I had another coworker that we went to the bathroom together. She wanted to take some pictures. 'cause That's what girls do in the bathroom is take pictures. She didn't have her phone, so we used mine. So she used my cell phone. We took selfies and the cell phone dropped on the floor and cracked. I initially started almost having a panic attack 'cause I knew that that was not going to go over well. To the point where she was even like, why are you upset? And at that point it was almost like I, that was my way. I probably could have said something, but instead I just cried and went out, told him that happened and we instantly left the bar.

Matt Besser (21:51):
What were you thinking as you left the bar?

Melanie Beechuk (21:55):
That it was, what was he gonna do to me this time?

Matt Besser (22:00):
You know, what he did was pretty bad, right?

Melanie Beechuk (22:03):
Yes.

Matt Besser (22:05):
What happened on the way home?

Melanie Beechuk (22:06):
We were driving on the highway. He was driving recklessly 'cause he was angry. He was yelling at me and he tried to brake check the car that either I would either hit my head in the dash or potentially go through the windshield. So I begged him to pull over. And he finally did, he got out of the car in the middle of the highway and he called, he made a phone call. He got back in the car and he told me that he called the cops on me and that they were coming to the house.

Melanie Beechuk (22:44):
I actually called my father and my brother answered my younger brother. And I was frantic and just said, please put my dad, you know, please put dad on the phone. And I, I told my dad, I think I'm gonna get arrested. Can you please come get me? And at that point, my ex-husband was upset that I, I reached out to anybody, especially my father. So that just kind of escalated the situation. And we got home and he tried to grab my phone out of my hand. That led to a struggle in the car. And it clicked in my head again that just said, just let it go. Let the phone go. It's not worth it. And at that point, the police showed up to my house.

Matt Besser (23:34):
And you gladly weren't with them, right?

Melanie Beechuk (23:36):
I gladly, voluntarily walked to the cop car. <Laugh>? Yeah. First I did say goodbye to my dog, but I had my dog in my arms. I walked to the cop car. They asked me who I was, said, give the dog back. And I, I mean, they opened the car door. They didn't even tell me to get in. Basically, I voluntarily went into the car.

Matt Besser (24:00):
There was probably some folks listening to this who expect that you told the police about this history of abuse and, and what he had been doing to you, and they went and arrested him and put him in jail. Those folks who expect that would be wrong, wouldn't they?

Melanie Beechuk (24:18):
Very wrong.

Matt Besser (24:19):
What, what actually happened?

Melanie Beechuk (24:22):
You know, I honestly don't know the, the truth at this point, but I know that I was taken to the police station and by the time I got there they already told me that I was being charged with domestic violence. And I was. So, I honestly felt relief, but also nobody wants to go to jail. So it was like this relief and this fear at the same time that I basically just was agreeing with the police. At that point, I was just like, okay. Okay. So I stayed overnight in, well, in jail and yes.

Matt Besser (25:10):
So after 10 years of abuse? Yes. Physical, emotional isolating you from your family? Yes. You are the one who gets charged? Yes. And put in jail. Mm-Hmm <affirmative>. I find that infuriating. I imagine a lot of other people do. Mm-Hmm <affirmative>. What's your take on it?

Melanie Beechuk (25:34):
Other than the, the phone breaking? I, I, it, it saved me, it changed my life.

Matt Besser (25:41):
Because you never went back to him,

Melanie Beechuk (25:43):
Right? I never went back.

Matt Besser (25:45):
You, so you spend the night in jail. Who's there when you go to get out

Melanie Beechuk (25:51):
The next day? After I spent the night in jail, my, my brother-in-law, who at the time was my sister's boyfriend, and I only met him twice at this point, shows up before my arraignment and he comes to see me. Luckily he knew people in Lake County that he could come see me. And he, at this point I am still kind of just in shock and jail is no fun. Yeah. but he came to see me at that point, whatever he was saying kind of sounded like a foreign language, but all I remember is him telling me what I was being charged with and asked me what I was going to plead. And I was going to plead guilty because I've never been arrested before. So I didn't know what was right or wrong, and I still really didn't know at that point what I was really even being charged with. And then of course, my ex, my brother-in-law was like, no, Melanie <laugh>, you never ever plead guilty. You always plead not guilty. So thank God, thank God he was able to talk to me, because if he didn't, I honestly, I don't know what Yeah. Would've happened after that. But yeah, so he was there. And then when I went to the actual room, my parents were there and my ex-husband was there.

Matt Besser (27:14):
And And you had a choice which road to go down? Yes. I think we know. But which choice did you make?

Melanie Beechuk (27:21):
I chose my parents.

Matt Besser (27:23):
And, and that was it. That was it. That was the end of your relationship. And you got a divorce and, and got out. Yes. Did you ever feel afraid for your safety while you were going through the divorce? Yes. What was that like? Where were you living alone, where were you staying?

Melanie Beechuk (27:40):
I lived with my parents for most of the divorce. We all felt fear. My, my parents felt feared. They felt fear for me, themselves and my siblings and their significant others because he knew everything about us. He was in my life for 10 years.

Matt Besser (27:59):
When you got outta that relationship and you looked in the mirror, who was the person that you saw and and was it the same person that you saw when you started college before you met him?

Melanie Beechuk (28:12):
No. I mean, when I first was, I like to say free, I have a tattoo. It was the first tattoo I got after it says free. Even though I did finally feel free and feel so much relief in that, you know, my life started again, it took me some time to really see who I was in the mirror. 'cause I, I didn't know I lost who I was through that whole relationship. But I definitely was not the same girl that I was when I met him in college.

Matt Besser (28:46):
Was this the first time when this cell phone incident happened? Was that the first time that your parents really knew what you had been through or you had already told them?

Melanie Beechuk (28:54):
No, that was the first time.

Matt Besser (28:58):
How hard was it to tell your parents what you had been through?

Melanie Beechuk (29:01):
It's still hard.

Matt Besser (29:03):
It's still hard to talk about with them. Mm-Hmm <affirmative>. That first time must have been just unimaginable.

Melanie Beechuk (29:08):
It's, it was hard for me to see them so sad.

Matt Besser (29:15):
So sad because they probably felt like they wished they had known and Yeah. Had been able to help

Melanie Beechuk (29:20):
You protect me. Yeah. You're supposed to protect your children. Yeah.

Matt Besser (29:24):
And then you felt some blame for how they felt, right? Yes. Part of your road to recovery was forgiving yourself for that, forgiving yourself for a lot of things. Why is that? Because I, I imagine most people hearing this think you have nothing to forgive yourself for.

Melanie Beechuk (29:46):
You have to forgive yourself to be able to forgive other people. I had to forgive myself, especially with my parents, that I, I let them go at one point and didn't have them in my life.

Matt Besser (30:04):
Has that forgiveness process completed or is it ongoing? Where are you in that cycle? <Laugh>?

Melanie Beechuk (30:12):
I think it's ongoing and we are open about it still. And, and we talk about it and think sometimes my parents just want to feel like talking about it helps them feel like they are protecting me Now. I was protecting them by not telling them. And now I realize, I realize, you know, after that, that's not protecting anybody at all.

Matt Besser (30:39):
So forgiveness is part of your road to recovery. One of the things we've talked a lot about at CMBA this year is that there's no one size fits all solution for folks who are overcoming life struggles. Mm-Hmm <affirmative>. For a lot of people, it's counseling. Mm-Hmm <affirmative>. For some people it's medication. There are a lot of different things. Can you talk about the path that you chose, the things that have helped you move on to a happier life?

Melanie Beechuk (31:07):
Yes. I think when everything ended, I didn't reach out to anybody. I didn't, you know, go to counseling or therapy mostly because I spent so long in this abusive relationship, I didn't want to relive it so quickly after because I was really navigating through a new life. I was navigating through so many different things, and I was also learning who I was again and relearning who my family was. So I really focused on my relationships and rebuilding my relationships with my family. So I spent a lot of time with them. I also, you know, found peace in my faith. And I know that can be a controversial thing to talk about, but it wasn't about what you believe in or who you believe in. I just felt peace. I felt forgiveness there. My mom was involved in that process with me, and I felt like getting back into the church with her was helping our relationship. Yeah.

Matt Besser (32:24):
I I mean, the way you're describing it, it sounds sort of like the, the antidote to his pattern of isolation, right? Because you've got the faith in the church community, so that's something healthy you belong to mm-hmm <affirmative>. You're reconnecting with your family. That's something healthy to belong to. You've got support network people like Lacey. That's something to belong to. Yes. Is that the way you view it, that belonging is sort of, is sort of the undoing of, of isolation? Yes. Has that been a meaningful part of your, your recovery?

Melanie Beechuk (33:01):
It is my recovery, yeah.

Matt Besser (33:03):
So you, Melanie, have a happy ending to your story because you are now married to a wonderful guy. I am. And you have a sweet little bundle of joy. Yes. Yes.

Melanie Beechuk (33:15):
And two stepdaughters, who, you know, they're my own as well, so

Matt Besser (33:20):
That's amazing and happy. Yes. I think we all know that, that not every story that starts like yours, ends like yours. Yes. And statistically speaking, the odds are pretty good that somebody who's listening to this podcast, listening to your story is in the middle of it. Yes. Or love someone who's in the middle of it. What do you need them to know so that their story can end closer to yours than the other end of the spectrum?

Melanie Beechuk (33:52):
I want them to know that they are not alone and that there's hope and that they should really put themselves first.

Matt Besser (34:04):
What if they're afraid? Or what if they think maybe a friend is going through that but they don't wanna intrude on their privacy or they don't know what to say?

Melanie Beechuk (34:13):
Intrude, <laugh>, intrude. My goal is to reach one person and it could have taken one person to pull me down from that balcony. Could have taken one person to notice the signs and reach out earlier and I would've been out earlier. Your life is worth living and nobody should make you feel otherwise.

Matt Besser (34:39):
It's an amazing story. I I commend you to the moon and back for, for being willing to share it. Thank you. And you know, one of the things that's so powerful about your two stories together is that you had the opportunity to be that one person in a way for Lacey. Yes. And so maybe we will pause. Yes. We'll take a little breather reset and come back and, and talk about Lacey's story. We're gonna continue this discussion next time with Lacey's story about her struggles with postpartum depression, and about how her story and Melanie's stories intersect, and about what law firms can be doing to better support the mental health of their employees and why they should care. Thanks everybody for listening to this episode of CNBA My Bar story.