My BarStory S03E01 - Kenneth Lusnia and Judge Timothy Dobeck

Today we are launching the third season of our My BarStory podcast by returning to our roots. My BarStory began as a living history of our Bar over 150 years.  In this season three opener, we hear the amazing story of 50-year Cleveland Bar veteran Ken Lusnia, who practiced law in Cuyahoga County starting in 1970, with the support of his wife and a growing family of nine children. He grew to teach and influence prosecutors throughout Cuyahoga County, and improved our juvenile justice system. More importantly, his family continues to grow in love. Here’s Ken talking with his friend Judge Timothy Dobeck.

Transcript

Brennan Donnellan (00:06):
Hi, I am Brennan Donnellan, media Director for the CMBA. Today we're launching the third season of our My Bar Story podcast By returning to our roots, my bar story began as a living history of our bar over the past 150 years. In this season three opener, we hear the amazing story of a man who practiced law in Cuyahoga County starting in 1970. With the support of his wife and a growing family of nine children, he grew to teach and influence prosecutors throughout Cuyahoga County and improved our juvenile justice system. More importantly, his family continues to grow in love.

Judge Timothy Dobeck (00:43):
My name is Tim Dobe. I've known Ken Lucenia for probably about 37 years. I'm 38 years with the as an attorney in 38 years with the Cleveland Metropolitan Bar Association. My friend Ken Nia is 50 years this year with a Cleveland metropolitan Bar Association and as an attorney, and we thought it might be a nice time to talk about Ken's career in law since he's got 50 of the 150 years of the Cleveland Metropolitan Bar Association under his belt. So I'd like to introduce Ken Nia. Ken why don't you give us a little bit of your background.

Kenneth Lusnia (01:21):
Well, thank you Tim. It's neat to be here at the Cleveland Metropolitan Bar. I'm a Clevelander and I was born on the East side St. Alexis Hospital which I think for anybody 60 years old or younger, they wouldn't know where that is because it doesn't exist anywhere. I live with my family as well as my grandparents. Went to St. Ignatius High School here locally. And then from St. Ignatius, I went to the College of the Holy Cross in Worcester, Massachusetts, after which I found myself at Suffolk University in Boston for law school. Once I graduated from Suffolk, I came back to Cleveland to begin my practice of law.

Judge Timothy Dobeck (02:14):
So Ken, I know. And, and you spent some time in Parma too, right? I had the pleasure of meeting your mom and dad as well.

Kenneth Lusnia (02:19):
Yes, yes. My folks moved to Parma. Oh, I, I believe I was about in the second grade at the time. We were members of St. Francis DeSales Parish in Parma on State and Snow Road. And my parents remained in Parma actually until they passed a few years ago.

Judge Timothy Dobeck (02:46):
And then tell us about some of the education they had that brought you to the practice of law.

Kenneth Lusnia (02:54):
When I was at St. Ignatius, I had a wonderful mentor there amongst many great teachers and, and staff. That was attorney Anthony Stringer. Tony Stringer, who at the time was Ward one councilman here in Cleveland. And he taught history. I was in his history class at Ignatius. But the reason I wanted to mention Tony Stringer is that he really inspired me to reach out, go beyond a comfort zone, so to speak. And he was instrumental in my selection of holy Cross for undergraduate studies. He himself was a grad of Holy Cross, and I know he went to bat for me so that I might in fact be accepted there and, and attend school there. I had a great four years at holy Cross, along with the Jesuits there. So you're, you're talking to a fellow that's Jesuit trained from ninth grade on while at holy Cross? I gave practice of law consideration, I believe, gosh, probably junior year when I saw an opportunity at Suffolk University in Boston there was a opportunity to apply for a scholarship there. And I did, fortunately I was able to get that, and that solidified my opportunity to attend law school. It was in fact 10 days after I graduated from college that my wife Kathy and I married as, matter of fact, it was 54 years ago today.

Judge Timothy Dobeck (04:48):
Oh, congratulations.

Kenneth Lusnia (04:50):
Thank you. But that was the opportunity to go to law school, and I took advantage of that, and I was very fortunate to have the opportunity. Well,

Judge Timothy Dobeck (05:00):
I remember we've talked about that before. It was an ad that was hanging in the office at Holy Cross, and you and your roommate were walking through and you saw the ad and you were encouraged to do that. Does that sound about right?

Kenneth Lusnia (05:11):
That's, that's actually very accurate. It was a posting on a bulletin board that I would walk by frequently in between classes. And I noticed the, the opportunity to apply, and that's in fact what I did.

Judge Timothy Dobeck (05:27):
So when did you find out you got the scholarship and when did you start at Suffolk University?

Kenneth Lusnia (05:32):
I found out in about may of my senior year school itself was the night program. So I went four years at night starting in late August of let's see, 1970. And I'd have to say that up until that point, my attention was focused on studies and I did fairly well. But working full time and then going to school at night is a whole different ball game, so to speak. And I found that to be pretty difficult four years, but luckily was able to finish it off. Sometimes

Judge Timothy Dobeck (06:16):
We call that a non-traditional student. You didn't go right from undergraduate to the full-time practice. You worked as well and worked at night. And I know the law school at Cleveland State has a night program too, that a lot of people take advantage of, at least in, in this town. But you were doing it out in, at Suffolk University,

Kenneth Lusnia (06:34):
Right? Yes. and I think Suffolk and Cleveland State Law School's night program were probably quite similar, three nights a week, six to 10:00 PM you know, four years. But you managed to get through.

Judge Timothy Dobeck (06:54):
So, so Ken, I'm gonna do a quick sidebar. I want you to tell me about I know you were married at the time that you commenced your legal studies and you had a child as well. Could you tell us a little bit about your personal life, the num, your family, kids, grandkids, they first started coming, when you first started having children?

Kenneth Lusnia (07:12):
My wife Kathy and I have nine children, and the first came May 20th of 71, and I remember that day for a lot of reasons, one of which was that the very next day was a final in criminal law at law school between the hospital and being with Kathy and preparing for that, that exam that sticks in your memory quite well. But during the course of law school we had two children. I had a full-time job during the day and then attended school, you know, in the evening. My goodness, if it wasn't for Kathie to take care of all that she did during, especially during those first years, there's no question that my efforts alone would not have gotten me through law school.

Judge Timothy Dobeck (08:13):
So let's get you through law school now. So was it a three year program or a four year program in the night program? Four. Okay. It was four. So what year did you graduate?

Kenneth Lusnia (08:23):
1974.

Judge Timothy Dobeck (08:24):
And you sat for the Ohio Bar in what year?

Kenneth Lusnia (08:27):
1974. Okay. We, we moved to back to Cleveland. That summer bar preparation program was a rasin bar preparation, as I recall. And it was really quite excellent, and prepared me very well, I thought for the Ohio bar, which I took in July. And then it wasn't until oh, about the end of October, I believe, before the results came out, and I found that I passed the exam.

Judge Timothy Dobeck (08:59):
Very good. So I'm gonna ask you this, Ken, because sometimes, you know there are multiple generations of lawyers in a family. Were there, were there other lawyers in your family at all?

Kenneth Lusnia (09:11):
No. I was the, the, the oldest child in my family, and there were no college graduates before me. There were no lawyers or other professionals, doctors or any, anything like that, that really made for some interesting choices that I made as I went into law, actually, because there, there really weren't any family members who were in a position to be able to provide too much practical advice about how to get started in practice. And that made a lot of difference as, as the years went on.

Judge Timothy Dobeck (09:57):
So it's about November of 1974, you've got a, a law degree, you've got a, a license now from the state of Ohio. You've been out of Cleveland for eight year hiatus. You're back in town. How did you begin your legal career then?

Kenneth Lusnia (10:15):
Very naively, actually, while I was growing up in Parma I met an attorney by the name of Robert Tuma, and I believe some folks would know him as Robert Tiger tma. And he and I stayed in touch during my law school years, and I wound up renting an office from him in West 98th and Lorraine in Cleveland to start a private general practice of law. Looking back at it now, I can't believe how naive I was thinking that I'll just rent this office and start taking on cases from where I had no idea, Tim. Also, at that time, it was just prior, I believe, to lawyers being able to advertise. So when I started there were no advertisements anywhere for legal services. It came in shortly after I started. That really didn't matter either, because I didn't have a budget for advertising. Anyway, it was it was rough to get started.

Judge Timothy Dobeck (11:29):
So what did Tiger Tuma do? Other, he, he was your landlord for a while. You had office space from him? Yes.

Kenneth Lusnia (11:35):
There were several attorneys in that office, not as a partnership, but just a, a, a grouping of attorneys. And I had one of the offices, I was able to share a couple of cases as, as, as time went on with the fellas there. But I have to say that it was really difficult to keep things going as far as the the kids and you know, raising the children and all the obligations and expenses that, that, that entailed. And then trying to increase my practice as it went along. And I, I spent 10 years in the general practice, private practice, but I would have to say that I learned a lot of lessons in that time, but I wasn't comfortable doing that.

Judge Timothy Dobeck (12:31):
Well, a as we'll get to, you had a stellar career in law. So what was the turning point? What, what happened? What was the turning point in your private practice and then your public practice?

Kenneth Lusnia (12:44):
I can say certainly that there came a point in time, and by this point in time I believe there were six children. And I met at my parish lady by the name of Pat Costello. And Pat Costello was the secretary to county prosecutor, John t Corrigan. Pat and I had some discussions about my practice, and I was trying to determine what would be the next step for me, or what could I possibly do. She was very quick to say, well, I'd like to have you meet John t Corrigan and consider an assistant Cuyahoga County prosecutor position. I did meet Mr. Corrigan and I had an interview with him. He was one outstanding individual, and he hired me in June of 1984. That changed the course of my career for the good in multiple ways, and I owe a debt of gratitude to both of those individuals for giving me the opportunity to become part of the prosecutor's office

Judge Timothy Dobeck (14:02):
As a new prosecutor. Tell us what you did. Is it the standard start in child support and juvenile and, and then you try to get to the general division?

Kenneth Lusnia (14:13):
I can tell you this, Tim, if John t Corrigan wanted me to handle some child support cases and also sweep the floors before I left the office, I'd have been thrilled to do that. <Laugh> I, I was so thankful to have that opportunity, a, as you mentioned, yes there was a certain order of things, a child support being an initial assignment that would last for a few months. I also spent some time in the juvenile division and at the Justice Center handling adult criminal cases, which I did for about five years, I believe.

Judge Timothy Dobeck (14:56):
And tell me what happened with your work in the juvenile division?

Kenneth Lusnia (15:00):
A juvenile division was another point in time, which was really special for me, in that typically the young men and women who would be assigned to the juvenile court were the, the rookies would be the, the newer hires and folks who were looking to gain some experience in trial work. Typically, that was done in the juvenile division at the time that I was there. The fellow who was the supervisor of the juvenile unit at the time, was getting close to retiring while many of my colleagues thought that they wanted to quickly get back to the Justice Center to try adult criminal cases. I enjoyed the work at the juvenile division. An opportunity I had was when that former supervisor retired, John t Corrigan, once again, gave me another opportunity. I had probably the biggest raise i I ever had in my life when he made me the supervisor of the juvenile division of the prosecutor's office.

Judge Timothy Dobeck (16:15):
So I could tell you, this is probably right around 1986 or 1987, because that's when I met you and, and I met you at juvenile court. You were my supervisor at juvenile court. And it's true, you were the unofficial training program for the prosecutor's office, because, but for juries, trying a juvenile case is just like trying a Dell case. You have to prove the elements of the offense. The only difference is it's to a judge. It's not to a jury. And you were the all lawyers who wanted to get to the Justice Center to try adult cases passed through juvenile court, and were trained by you at, at least in that, my, my class, you know, the, the class of prosecutors that started with me.

Kenneth Lusnia (16:58):
Yes, I, that, that is true. It's something that I truly have been blessed with, and I take great pride in the fact that so many of our colleagues who were Cuyahoga County prosecutors came through the juvenile division. Unlike the years that I spent in private practice were, I honestly didn't feel I belonged when I became the supervisor in the juvenile division. I had a tremendous sense of belonging and being on a team and working with some absolutely outstanding young attorneys, many of whom such as yourself are now on the bench in municipal courts common plea courts, and in fact, even on the Ohio Supreme Court at this time. Yeah,

Judge Timothy Dobeck (18:03):
Mike Donnelley,

Kenneth Lusnia (18:04):
Mike Donnelley, mm-hmm <affirmative>. Yes. To have the chance to be of assistance, little ways or bigger ways with so many of these wonderful people was so fulfilling, such an exceptional opportunity. It absolutely was a highlight of my career.

Judge Timothy Dobeck (18:24):
So there's no question that, that your work in juvenile court clicked with your career, and there are a number of persons that you and I have spoken about that you've worked with at juvenile court that were of great help to you and, and, and your career. Do you wanna talk about those persons? Yes, of course. Whenever we talk, lawyers should always be grateful for the people that have given them a helping hand along the way. And it's never an, in an an inclusive list. It's always you, you, you can never name everybody that's helped you along the way. And I'm not trying to do that to you, but there have been a couple of people, especially in the juvenile court, that were of great assistance to you.

Kenneth Lusnia (19:00):
Yes. Yeah. There are some that, that really were instrumental in helping me along with my career. As far as the juvenile court is concerned, there was Judge John Toner and Judge John f Corrigan on the bench way back there. Two wonderful fellas. As I later found out judge John Toner actually wrote a letter to John t Corrigan County prosecutor, supporting me, and in, and encouraging Mr. Corrigan to appoint me as the Juvenile Division chief. I didn't know that at the beginning, but I come to find out later, John Toner was a wonderful fellow. Also on the bench, there was judge Kenneth Rocco. Judge Rocco is another person who I have highest respect for really admire, spent several years on the juvenile court bench prior to his election to the bench of the Chiho or the Eighth District Court of Appeals. He, too, provided me with a direction counsel at a point in time when we had a serious medical issue with one of our children, judge Kenneth Rocco went over and above to support us. During that particular period of time, something I'll never forget with respect to some others who really stood out along the way. I, I have to actually go back to the years in private practice. The first 10, you might say, there was a domestic relations judge by the name of Patrick Gallagher,

Judge Timothy Dobeck (20:51):
Also a Parma person,

Kenneth Lusnia (20:52):
Also a Parma person. And in his career, he, at one time was legal services director at the juvenile court. I knew him from being on the bench domestic relations bench during those, I'll call 'em kind of bruising years. At the beginning judge Gallagher presided over a divorce trial that I tried. I didn't come out too well in that case. Came in second came in second. Yeah, I would say probably a distant sec afterwards. And once the case was totally concluded, judge Gallagher called me aside and he spent time talking to me and offering me some suggestions or tips or thoughts about how I could improve my presentation. To have someone who really doesn't know you, take some extra time and offer a thought or two to try to be of help, boy, that was like a godsend. I truly appreciated having that experience. As it turned out, judge Patrick Gallagher, one of his sons Jay Gallagher, was also a assistant Cuyahoga County prosecutor. We got to meet as per usual through the juvenile division, and became close friends as well. After that,

Judge Timothy Dobeck (22:21):
I remember there's a story with judge Adrian, both Russ, Adrian and and Ronald. Adrian,

Kenneth Lusnia (22:29):
Yes.

Judge Timothy Dobeck (22:30):
Would you give us that story?

Kenneth Lusnia (22:31):
Yeah. We we're going back again to the early days, but this is the part of my practice where I was so naive. I can't believe that I got myself in this predicament. Within about three months after I was sworn in, in Columbus passing the bar, I was in my first jury trial, a criminal trial in the general division. There was a judge by the name of Blanche Kansky. Here I am selecting a jury and getting started with the trial. And I was a nervous wreck. Well, thankfully, there was a co-defendant in the case who was represented by Russell Adrian. That's judge Ronald Adrian's dad. Russ Adrian is about the nicest guy you could ever come to meet, outgoing fellow. He recognized instantly that I needed some help and would, during the course of trial, as well as in on the break times, be talking with me and encouraging me and suggesting lines of questioning and leading me through the case. Quite honestly, I never forget that either. He was just a, a wonderful guardian angel for me at that time, and absolutely professional in every respect. Well, as it turns out, shortly after that, I was in another criminal trial. It just happened to be Judge Blanche Kansky. And who is the prosecutor on the case where I'm defending it's Judge Ronald Adrian, prosecutor, Ron Adrian at the time, before

Judge Timothy Dobeck (24:19):
He is ascension of the bench.

Kenneth Lusnia (24:21):
Right. Tried that case. I actually got a, a defense verdict on that one. I, I remember that. 'cause It was my first one. And to be able to work with someone like Russ and Ronald Adrian is quite an honor. Clearly, Ronald Adrian is just following his father's footsteps, achieving so much in this community.

Judge Timothy Dobeck (24:48):
Well, Ken, I'm gonna take you away from the county prosecutor's office. Now, I know that you worked for Stephanie Tubbs Jones towards the end of your career with the County Prosecutor's office. But again, you had that connection with juvenile court. So take us to the next step of your career.

Kenneth Lusnia (25:02):
Next step was I was hired by the juvenile court for a position called Director of Court Services, which covered the courtroom staffing clerk's office and what we referred to as the intake department where cases would be received into the court. And that only lasted for a, a couple of months. What happened was the court administrator, the very year that I joined the court staff was, was fired again, to my surprise I was appointed acting court administrator about seven or eight months after I made the switch to court administration.

Judge Timothy Dobeck (25:48):
And that's the court administrator for all of the functions of juvenile court?

Kenneth Lusnia (25:52):
Yes. At that time, we had a little over 600 employees in four different divisions.

Judge Timothy Dobeck (25:59):
And that included the detention center as

Kenneth Lusnia (26:01):
Well. It included the detention center. Yeah. The opportunity for growth there. Tim was, again, very special. I wasn't in the courtroom anymore. This required administrative skills dealing with a union that had just come on board at the court, all kinds of IT issues putting in a new, new systems. And then, of course, during that period of time, which was like the first decade of 21st century, we're in the midst of trying to build a new juvenile court house and detention center. And that was fraught with all kinds of difficulties. Yeah.

Judge Timothy Dobeck (26:46):
Political issues, determining where to do it. We're going, the county's going through it, or has just gone through it again with respect to a new jail.

Kenneth Lusnia (26:55):
Yes, very, very much the same. Yeah. Yeah.

Judge Timothy Dobeck (26:57):
So you had a short stint as juvenile court administrator, what, 10 years? 10

Kenneth Lusnia (27:02):
Years <laugh>? Yeah. <Laugh>, I'm not sure of this. I, I don't know if I should even mention, but I think I was one of the longest serving court administrators in many, many years. There, there were actually three different administrative judges during my tenure as court administrator. One of them was Judge Peter Kora, who actually appointed me and who has since passed away. Right. And then there was judge Joseph Russo. And finally Judge Thomas O'Malley, who actually is, is the current administrative administrative judge of the juvenile court.

Judge Timothy Dobeck (27:42):
Well, Ken, that, that says a lot about you, that three different judges or or benches kept you as the administrative judge too. I mean, as the administrator for the court,

Kenneth Lusnia (27:54):
I would like to think that, I certainly wanted to make sure that I was doing the job, tried to continue to learn how to do things a little better as, as time wore on.

Judge Timothy Dobeck (28:08):
So you've mentioned that one of the biggest challenges during your tenure was the, the planning and ultimately the construction and opening of the new juvenile facility.

Kenneth Lusnia (28:19):
That was really quite extraordinary. It's a nine story structure on East 93rd and Quincy sitting on top of the detention center. But from the location to what the building would consist of physically to how large the detention center would be, to even the smallest issues of furnishing or courtroom sizes or what have you, all that was in play during those years, it was pretty contentious between the judges of the court and the county administration mm-hmm <affirmative>. So it took, it took a lot of effort to get to the extent that I could to get everybody together and moving forward.

Judge Timothy Dobeck (29:05):
So I wanna wind up your career then in juvenile court as the court administrator. I know there were a couple of other hallmarks in your career as the court administrator. Do you want to, would you summarize those for us?

Kenneth Lusnia (29:18):
You know, during that time, we were able to obtain a federal grant for the drug court that was a four, $400,000 grant at the time. The drug court is still ongoing at juvenile court. We developed accreditation for the detention center, added a series of programs, which I, I believe withstood the test of time as far as their, their ability to influence lowering the recidivism rate.

Judge Timothy Dobeck (29:49):
And, and ultimately, you ended up back in the courtroom?

Kenneth Lusnia (29:52):
I did. I thanks to Judge Thomas O'Malley. I was hired as a magistrate on his criminal docket. And I did that for my last five years. And it was a thrill to be on the bench, as I'm sure you, you are appreciating now as well in Parma. I never saw myself really worthy to be on the bench. I tried to keep learning and keep improving as a trial attorney, but to have that experience to be on the bench at the end of my career was really quite a capstone. And it, I'm, I'm honored to have had that opportunity. Also, I was hired by you as a assistant prosecutor in the city of Parma, and I did, I believe I was with you there, Tim, for about three years. Yeah.

Judge Timothy Dobeck (30:41):
A a great hire.

Kenneth Lusnia (30:42):
Yes. Oh, great. That was that was a fun time too, and I enjoy that very much.

Judge Timothy Dobeck (30:48):
So, Ken, you've earned your place in history in Cuyahoga County Juvenile Court Administration and justice. I want, I wanna state that to you. I'm gonna say that now on the 50th anniversary of your being an attorney. And now looking back over those 50 years with more wisdom, tell me the advice you can give younger lawyers or things that you fell back to, to get through some of the challenges and obstacles in your career. You,

Kenneth Lusnia (31:16):
You have to keep, keep working. Keep the nose to the grindstone, no matter what area you're working in, strive to be the best that you can be. A couple things Tim I, that are very important to me. One is given my Jesuit training, there's a phrase, de it's for the greater glory of God. It's a hallmark of Jesuit education. It's imprinted on my heart. There's just no question in my mind that whatever it is that you're attempting to do, whatever part of the law or any other career for that matter, I think you have to approach it from the very beginning. Who are you doing it for? Ultimately, who are you doing it for? And for me, it's a MDG for the greater glory of God that I feel has kept me in good stead and in the proper frame of mind to seek opportunities and then work through them when you have an opportunity.

Judge Timothy Dobeck (32:28):
And Ken you, we've had a conversation off record on this, but there are three things that you consider every day when you're doing any project, any decision that you make, I think they're important. Go through those with us. Would you,

Kenneth Lusnia (32:46):
Did I do something today to help people? Did I spend my, my time at work in a way that resulted in something positive for people? Did I give it my best? Was I ready to go from the start? And, and did I do it for the right reason? And my reason is, is, as I mentioned, if I'm making a, a list for groceries or if I'm starting a, a, a legal pleading or anything in between, before I write something down on a piece of paper up in the, up in the right hand corner, I always put my A MDG, and it gives me the proper focus. But, you know, Tim, as we're winding up here, I just wanted to also say to my wife, Kathy, 54 years marriage as of today, nothing that I became involved in with the law could, could have been possible without her absolute a hundred percent support, unquestioning support. Wow. How, how could a guy go wrong when you've got someone like that, you know, in your corner? My love, in my gratitude to my wife Kathy, and happy anniversary.

Judge Timothy Dobeck (34:16):
Yeah. well, Ken, you still need to take her out to dinner tonight. But I would say this, Ken, thank you very much for your public service and for what you've done to the to make the Cleveland Bar better. And I would also like to, at this time, thank and acknowledge the Cleveland Metropolitan Bar Association for allowing us to, to imprint this snapshot of history with Ken Lenia. And for all of the resources that they make available to new and old lawyers they're, they're an important part of the the Cleveland legal scene too. But Ken, thank you very, very much and I appreciate being able to interview you.

Kenneth Lusnia (34:57):
Thank you. It's been my pleasure and privilege. Thank you.

Brennan Donnellan (35:01):
Thank you for listening. Wanna record your own podcast? Visit c metro bar.org for slash podcast. And don't forget about Rock 19 on Saturday February 8th. Tickets and sponsorships are still available@cleanmetrobar.org slash rock.