My BarStory S02E14 - Chris Schmitt and Matthew Besser

Big new ideas are coming to the CMBA, from our members, our staff, and from new CMBA and CMBF CEO Chris Schmitt. If you don't know Chris, this conversation is a great way to start. Chris talks about growing up in Ohio's farm country and the value of hard work. He explains how a philosophy degree launched him into an amazing career. And he tells CMBA President Matthew D. Besser why our Bar's future is so bright, we gotta wear shades!

Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
<Silence>

Melanie Farrell (00:06):
Hi, this is Melanie Farrell, chief Relationship Officer of the CMBA. Welcome to another My Bar Story podcast, and it's a big one c MBA's, newly selected CEO. And our 20 24 25 President are together in the studio for the first time.

Matt Besser (00:25):
Hey everybody, this is CNBA President Matt Besser with another My Bar Story podcast. We are joined today by, I think, qualifies as a special guest. It's,

Chris Schmitt (00:36):
I like it,

Matt Besser (00:37):
It new C-N-B-A-C-E-O, Christopher Schmidt.

Chris Schmitt (00:40):
Thanks, Matt. And hello everybody. And I'm, I'm thrilled to be here and thrilled to be down here in our studio doing a podcast.

Matt Besser (00:48):
Why don't you introduce yourself to you're adoring fans in the CNBA membership? Sure.

Chris Schmitt (00:53):
I'll give you the, the super quick version. So, grew up in farming country in southeast Ohio. Moved to northeast Ohio to go to Hiram College, which I still very involved with to this day. Majored in political science and philosophy and history. So I majored in going to law school took a year off and taught high school, which I really enjoyed, but started law school at Case in 2005. Got six months into that and realized that there was something else I needed. And that was a, a really a focus on group work and collaboration. And so added a business degree to that as well. So, finished my JDA JD MBA in 2009, and that was the wrong time to graduate from law school, as many of you know. So went my own way, helped get a marketing agency off the ground.

Chris Schmitt (01:35):
Worked in manufacturing for a little over a decade. And then went to the National Association of Manufacturers in dc. Did that for almost six years running our sponsorship and growth programs, and really looked at non-dues revenue. And then right before I joined the CBAI was the executive director of Ohio City Incorporated for a year which is a wonderful and challenging role that I, I really got to help those 10,000 residents of our neighborhood improve their daily lives. And so I really, really, really enjoyed that. But when this opportunity popped up online, I had several people send it to me, including members of the bar, and said, this really sounds like you. And I read it and I said, gosh darn, that does sound like me. And sure enough, it checked every box of what I was looking for, engagement in the community, engagement with the professional world fundraising working with with other professionals to, to solve big problems. So many of the things that I was looking for in a career step, but also in the, the next chapter of life. And so it was a natural fit and that's, that's how I got to meet you, find folks, and I'm glad to be here today.

Matt Besser (02:40):
So when you say that you grew up in a, a rural farming town, how rural, how farming <laugh> Sure. How, how many horse town was it?

Chris Schmitt (02:49):
Oh so it we, we like to joke, it has one of those signs on the front that they change the number when people leave, right. <Laugh> it's there's definitely more cows than people. So an hour east of Columbus. And my grandparents had a farm, aunts and uncles had a farm. And my, my parents were really the, the first generation professional non-farmers. And so my dad worked as a technician at a manufacturing company. My mom was a nurse but I was the first to go off to college on either side of the family. So it was I got to be the, the outlier that moved three hours away from home, which according to my grandparents, might as well have been Siberia. That was far enough for me to get away. And I've, I've lived up in the northeast Ohio ever since.

Matt Besser (03:28):
Did did you grow up bailing hay, milking cows,

Chris Schmitt (03:31):
Bailing hay more than milking cows, but yes, it's certainly learned the, learned the value of hard work being from being from that environment, but really growing up in a, in a in a culture in, in Lincoln County, for those of you that have your county map in front of you that was focused on family, was focused on hard work but also didn't really have a professional class, we'll call it there. I, I until I had gone to college, I really didn't know any lawyers. I'm sure that they existed, but they all live somewhere else. Right. And so a lot of the folks that we looked to help with our access to justice work and other things we do in the community were the folks I grew up around and probably were my parents at the time. And so that's near and dear to me is, is helping out the, the folks that are good, hardworking, red blooded Americans that may not have access to, to lawyers.

Matt Besser (04:19):
And then you end up at the, in the mean streets of, of Hiram College.

Chris Schmitt (04:23):
That's right. Talk about, talk about mean streets. Yeah. We the, the, the one local pizza place, I think went outta business twice while I was there. So it was we, we even went it through periods of no industry. But yeah, I loved it. And my, my time at High Room really was, I like to tell folks that I, I learned a little bit in class and I learned a lot outside of it. Was very involved in student government, was very involved in clubs and activities, and just really found my passion for being a leader, but also for working together to solve big, complex problems. And so hiring like many other local liberal arts small colleges is in a really interesting spot right now. And I think it's gonna take a, a lot of us stepping in to help institutions like that survive because the, the, the math has changed and the economic has changed, just like it's changing for trade associations, the relevance to the world that they may have had 50 years ago. We have to update who we are and what we believe in for these places to thrive over the next decades to

Matt Besser (05:17):
Come. You mentioned your major. Yeah. you majored in going to law school. Yeah. Poli sci and philosophy. And at the summer associate event we had a couple weeks ago at Margaritaville Mm-Hmm. <Affirmative>, a bunch of, a bunch of us got around a table and we made a game out of deciding what was the major that was least useful in the real world unless you were going to law school.

Chris Schmitt (05:39):
That's, that's right.

Matt Besser (05:40):
And sure enough, philosophy won <laugh>,

Chris Schmitt (05:42):
So Yeah. I,

Matt Besser (05:44):
I guess you picked right?

Chris Schmitt (05:45):
Oh, I, my, that's the thing is I, I have all of my shelves of books at home in my home office, or all my philosophy books are still out. And all of my law school books have been in boxes for a long time because I, I really did really did enjoy the, the academic rigor of philosophy. And I think that that's what I look forward to the most in law school, was doing hard things and, and thinking about hard problems. And I have always have always really enjoyed that liberal arts training to focus on taking really, really big ideas, distilling them down into bite-sized ideas, and then being able to communicate that to people in a valuable way. And at the end of the day, philosophy, like liberal arts, I would argue, like law school teaches you how to think and how to write doesn't necessarily teach you a lot of facts. Doesn't necessarily teach you a lot of super practical day-to-day answers to questions. But you, it sure does teach you how to answer those questions in a, in a compelling way.

Matt Besser (06:35):
And then you took this non-traditional law school path Yeah. That led you to the NAM and, and Ohio City, as you know, I was on the search committee Mm-Hmm. <Affirmative>. And I admit that, that as a plaintiff's lawyer, when I see National Association of Manufacturers on that resume, I thought, Ooh, what are we getting ourselves into here? Yeah. Can you talk about your experiences with the NAM and, and then later at OCI and, and sort of how the work you did there translates to your vision for Yeah. The future of CMBA and, and how it's gonna benefit our members?

Chris Schmitt (07:12):
You bet. So starting with the N-A-M-N-A-M is a really unique organization. 125 some years old has 14,000 member companies across the country large and small. So everything from Fortune 500 type manufacturers that make up the top 10%. But really the manufacturing sector is made up by the 90% of, of folks that aren't, that the, the mom and pop shops, the machine shops down the street that are spread all the way across the country. It's a great foray into how people in all 50 states are, are living and how they're, how they're paying the bills, and how they're working together to support their families. And my biggest contributions there revolved around changing the perception of manufacturing. Manufacturing unfortunately had the reputation as dark, dirty, dangerous, right? It was the people. We, we did a survey and we found that 75% of folks said manufacturing in America was important, that only about 30% of parents said their kids should go into manufacturing.

Chris Schmitt (08:13):
And so that perception gap and that lack of trust in that sector being right for their kids was a big red flag. As the boomers were retiring, 2 million some open jobs in manufacturing, and we had to do everything we could to change, change that perception. And so through an awesome program called Creators Wanted, that I got to work on with my team, put together a 40 53 foot trailer, sorry, with, with pullout side rooms that became an escape room that we had kids around the country could go through and learn and learn about how manufacturing really is computers and how manufacturing really is designed and how manufacturing is ai, and how all of the things that they were already learning in school that they loved all led to careers in manufacturing. And so my oldest child is a manufacturing engineering graduate from Case.

Chris Schmitt (08:55):
And so I, I put my money where my mouth is literally by paying to get that engineering degree. But really changing the perception of, of manufacturing led directly to coming to the Bar Association and thinking about how can we continue to change the perception of all practice not just in Cleveland, but nationally. Our, our average member of the CMBA is 56 years old which many of us look around now. It's not nearly as old to me as it seemed to be 20 years ago. But the, we, we look around and think, man, this is this is a really interesting time in the career, because if we don't lower the average age of the CMBA, and if we don't lower the average age of attorneys in America, this thing looks a whole lot different in 10 years than it looks right now.

Chris Schmitt (09:35):
So one of our biggest priorities internally for me and for the team moving forward, is how do we continue to create programming? How do we continue to create outlets that are attractive to brand new lawyers, that are attractive to folks that are starting a family? Those are real priorities. I actually went last night to a women in law event down at Edgewater Beach, and we got to have an ice cream social, and there were 50 some individuals there, and I took my daughter and she got to play it with the other kids. And just the, the thought of it being an event for lawyers was almost secondary to it being an event for professionals that were in the same spot in life. And that was with little kids. To go back to OCI for a second, I mean there is, if you've never run a CDC before, it's one of those jobs that I wish everybody had to do for six months just for the training and the experience of it, because it is a, a wild experience having 10,000 folks that you are trying to represent and trying to engage with and, and trying to help them with their lives that, that range from multi multimillionaires to folks that are unhoused that range from kids in public schools that are really gonna have to fight to graduate to kids that are going to private schools that will will never have a problem paying the bills.

Chris Schmitt (10:44):
And so it gives you that great perspective of how broad the community is and how diverse those, those opportunities to help are. And so the focus there was really on creating opportunities both from the boardroom by reserving spots for individuals from public housing and from our public support agencies to be part of our board of directors, which was something that's very unique in Cleveland to have those reserved spots but also to create third spaces to look at creating youth sports programs that people that live in public housing and people whose kids before we created that program, were going to Lakewood into Westlake to play sports. So it's the chance for my daughter to, to engage with members of her of her class, but also of members of her community in a way that's different. It's just kids playing soccer.

Chris Schmitt (11:33):
At the end of the day, those kids don't care. They learn all of their bad habits in life from us. They don't, they don't know any different than it's just another little kid next to them. But sure enough, when you put those kids together on the soccer field, it gives a chance for their parents and other parents to engage with each other. And you create this opportunity that we're not also different when you dial it back, when you look at the, the, the, the, the base essence of what a community is built upon, that we're, we're a lot alike. And I think that we can bring together some of the same focus and some of the same effort for CMBA programs that we're not just a lawyer organization for lawyers. We're an organization that may be made up of lawyers and support staff and people at law firms, but we are, at the end of the day, a a community focused organization doing real good and real benefit to Cuyahoga County in a way that is driven by lawyers, but also the, the has a purpose that's much bigger than just the profession

Matt Besser (12:26):
In this first month. What surprised you about about CNBA? What other sort of assets and strengths have you found things that we're doing? Well,

Chris Schmitt (12:37):
I have found that the people who care about the CNBA really care in the best way possible folks like you, the rest of our board members, other stakeholders that are really plugged in in sections and committees, and it is, it is fantastic to know that people show up here as volunteers, but they want to help row. That's one of my philosophies in life that very much is a college football carry through, is everybody rows. And I think that there's wrong

Matt Besser (13:03):
Sport that that's rowing. You're confusing.

Chris Schmitt (13:05):
Well, no, that, well, yeah, that is rowing, but it's a foot anyway, so that everybody rose. And it's, it's important to have those folks that are true believers. True, died in the old believers in what you're doing. And I could not be more blessed with, with people like that. We also something that surprised me is how many folks have come to me? Friends of mine that I went to law school with that have said, I, look, I really wasn't engaged before, but I really want to rejoin. And so it's been nice to send a couple of those invoices out and have people pay them because it's nice to have new members, but it's really nice as a validation that we're on the right track. And I really think we need to explore further and how do we get more younger members engaged in what we're doing?

Chris Schmitt (13:46):
And not, not just a pay your dues but really in a show up and help row mentality. I think we certainly have opportunities. Our website is something that we've, we've heard loud and clear from members that we wanna make it more user friendly. And that's something we're actively doing right now. I think our events that we're doing, creating more educational content around hot topics of the day around issues of the day that people are really excited to talk about and stay excited to learn about is, is a way that we can draw new attention. And then also, how do we, how do we work better with the media? And I think it's something that that I've certainly have seen the success of that through the NAM in dc. I think I was telling you the other day where the, the leaks there may have gone to the Washington Post, and it feels very 1970s. But the but here it's the how do we work with cranes and how do we work with cleveland.com to be able to help tell the story, but also to make the, the broader community more aware of the efforts that we're putting forth to to provide opportunities for, for people that aren't lawyers. Again, it's the whole community aspect of it. Yeah.

Matt Besser (14:46):
And then of course, it's opportunities to highlight the work of our members Yeah. And, and, and member firms.

Chris Schmitt (14:52):
Yeah, you bet. And I, I think it's telling the whole story and I, the, the, the whole person story, and that's something that we found such success with at the NAM. But I think the CNBA has done a good job, and we're gonna continue to expand that job, is I wanna talk about what are, what are people passionate about? What are they doing when they're outside the office, or how is, how is their office work connected to things that they're really passionate about? And I, there is such value in telling those stories of a whole person that really speaks to not only the personal satisfaction they find from their career, but also the struggles along the career. And as you've done such a great job with the, the mental health awareness programs that we've, that we've done in creation of bar circles and the focus on approaching everyone as a whole individual. And that is a, such a unique opportunity for us to highlight people that are making a difference in their community, but people who have also made a difference in their own lives by coming to realizations about how they can be their best selves

Matt Besser (15:54):
With any leadership change within an organization. As we all know, there, there's bound to be some question and uncertainty and how are things gonna change and what, what's the organization gonna look like? What's been your message to staff without revealing anything? Sure. Too proprietary. Yeah. About how you see the future of the CNBA going, and just as importantly, what's your message to individual members, to our firm members, to legacy members who have been bar members for 20, 30 years about the future of the Bar Association and what they should expect CNBA to look like three, five years from now?

Chris Schmitt (16:33):
Yeah. The message to the staff from the, from the very start I opened my very first meeting with the staff, with everybody, take your, take a deep breath. Everybody close your eyes and take a deep breath. 'cause We will be fine. We will be fine. And I, you're right, there's been a ton of stability here. But when you lose legends of the bar, when you, when you lose Dave, and when you lose Mary and when you lose Becky, there's bound to be some change, some, some trepidation that comes along with it. I think the, the biggest thing is focusing on, again, the positive energy and what we do well, but also highlighting folks internally that we, we truly believe are on the right path. And there was a press release that went out, I believe today announcing some promotions internally.

Chris Schmitt (17:14):
Melanie Ferrell, who many of you know and love, is now a c-level official Chief relationship officer for us. Caitlin Peterson has been named director of the Bar Foundation to really focus on that as a full-time effort. Carrie Burns is going to be taking over not only the legal department, but also leading the Cleveland Legal Collaborative. And we are filling in with other staff. And I think that that's important to, to highlight as well, is that we're hiring a chief of staff and we're gonna be looking to expand Melanie's team and membership really with a focus of not creating new proprietary kinds of work, but really let's take the work that we're already doing within the C-B-C-N-B-A and pass it around to a few more hands to where we can be even more effective. The message to the, the rest of the membership, I think is that excitement is contagious.

Chris Schmitt (18:00):
And I think it's something we talked a lot about during the interview process and something I know Matt, you and I have talked about a lot is that I, I am the person that I am 24 hours a day, and I am always loud and I'm always out front and I'm always trying to be positive and I'm trying to be energetic, and I try to make jokes. And I really have seen since I've come in the last month, the, even the tone, the volume, the frequency of the office has changed in a positive way. And I really hope that our members see that carry through into everything that we do, that we're just, we're, we're coming with a little more energy. We're coming with a little more excitement. We're coming with a little more ambition. And, and hopefully that carries through into some great results.

Matt Besser (18:39):
Should I, I'll put on my, my Debbie Downer hat. Yeah. If I'm a 20 year bar Association member, mid-career Mm-Hmm. <Affirmative>, maybe big firm, am I worried that the Bar Association I know and rely on for CLE and for volunteer opportunities is gonna drastically change?

Chris Schmitt (18:58):
No, nothing we're doing well will go away or get worse. But the reality is this association, just like most associations over the years has continued to expand my message to the, to the team has been we can't continue to grow horizontally. We've continued to with the same amount of bodies and with the same amount of expectations, continue to expand and expand and expand when the reality is that we need to probably trim the, trim the bushes a little bit on the edges and get a little bit back to, to the verticals and what we truly do well. But also the analogy I've been using is that we need to shake the tree and see what falls out and the stuff that's laying on the ground, we have to make a decision. Is the, is it valuable stuff that we need to find a way to put back in the tree?

Chris Schmitt (19:35):
Or is it stuff that we don't need? And that's something that we're gonna be serving members and talking with the board to really figure out what if we picked up over the years that really has been beneficial to our members and to to the organization as a whole. And what if we picked up just because it was another thing that somebody came up with a great idea, but there wasn't the follow through with it, and now we're all trying to juggle it. So I think the, the membership will see some narrowing, but all with the good intention of it, producing better results at the end of the day.

Matt Besser (20:06):
All all with the idea, we are a member service organization, and our goal is not only to defend the rule of law, but to help our members and their firms Mm-Hmm. <Affirmative> advance their career and, and develop.

Chris Schmitt (20:18):
You bet. And it's a, we can't be everything to everybody. I think that's, that's associations across the country make that mistake all the time, is they try to be things that they are not. At Ohio State Incorporated, we would say that we are not a social justice organization, but we can do a lot of social good here. We are not a community benefits organization, but we can benefit a lot of people in the community. Just having the willingness to see where our truest high value can be to our members and to the folks that we serve versus trying to be everything possible to those individuals.

Matt Besser (20:48):
Right. You mentioned excitement. Yeah. Excitement's contagious. What are you excited about in the coming year, two years, visions that you have for not only physically where we're going, but, but where we're going sort of existentially as a bar association?

Chris Schmitt (21:05):
So certainly not a secret at this point that we will likely be moving locations within the next six months. I am thrilled about that opportunity that I found out right after Matt, after me the job. He was nice enough to say, oh, and by the way, we're moving. So we're that's been from the, from the very first day, something that's top of mind, but really creating a space that is welcoming to members, but also conducive to the vision of the next 10 years that that we're, that we're putting out there as a a space that people want to spend time, a pace place that people feel welcome. But it also serves the needs of educational programming and community programming and interviewing for bar admissions and all of the things that we need to do as an association.

Chris Schmitt (21:45):
So finding that space. The other things that excite me, I, I think let's take the things that we know how to do well and make 'em even better. I love our signature events. The Halloween runs coming up in a couple months that everybody should sign up for Rock The Foundation coming up in the, in the winter down at Music Box Sper Club. It's, it's how do we take those, those signature events and have even more appeal to people outside of the current donor list. Ultimately, I think the, those fundraising efforts go towards the ultimate value of the Legacy one 50 campaign, which was started before I got here. We will continue through the end of this year, and we're really hoping to put a nice cherry on top of that towards the end of the year. But the Signature program out of that, the Cleveland Legal Collaborative, it's a an amazing vision and some amazing foresight by this organization.

Chris Schmitt (22:34):
Before I was involved to create an opportunity for young new lawyers to work exactly with the members of the community that we know that we should be doing more for folks that are in the justice gap that make too much money for legal aid, don't make enough money for a commercial rate lawyer, most of their legal needs. One of our studies, we put out something like 90% of their legal needs go unmet. And so how can we work with individuals to provide those services that otherwise would not happen at all. I was, I was blessed yesterday, I got to go to lunch with our fellows and we just had a really honest and open conversation about where things are with that program and how things can continue to improve. And one of them asked me very earnestly, is the, how do we measure success?

Chris Schmitt (23:17):
And I said honestly, we measure success by did we help one more person than had help before? And so we will be able to do metrics over the years in the next five years, the next 10 years for that program, and it will continue to grow and it will continue to change, and we are fully invested in it. But the reality is that difference making in the CLC world and in that below rate law legal world is focused on changing life, changing an outcome for one individual that would not have had it without us

Matt Besser (23:47):
As we work our way towards the end. Yeah. Today I wanna come a little full circle and, and go back to your prior experiences and, and get a little bit philosophical. Sure. One of the other things that stuck out in your interview process, at least to me, was we had asked you about your philosophy of managing people and, and how you would approach staff. And you said something along the lines of, I'm less concerned with people's titles and their current portfolio responsibilities. I'm much more concerned about finding out what people are passionate about. And that really stuck out to me. So I was, I was wondering if you could explain that better than I just did, and then from a bigger picture perspective, why that's your philosophy and, and how you think it can benefit our members. Mm-Hmm.

Chris Schmitt (24:36):
<Affirmative>, you've probably heard me in this interview, even say highest and best use about five times. I, I think it's no more true than in people who work for you and no more true than in how those that support the organization as volunteers or as employees get outta bed every day and come to work. The reality is, we all have work that has to get done. This podcast has to get produced and posted. Our bar journal has to get written and published, or CLEs have to get scheduled. But the reality is there's very little in this space that is sacred in how we do things or why we do things. My biggest push from day one, our very first meeting we had was asked, talking about the bar journal, and it was asking why, why did we produce a bar journal? And at the time, the answers were very focused on, well, because we always have and because our members expect it.

Chris Schmitt (25:29):
And it's like, well, no, let's take a step back. What about that? What are we trying to accomplish? Who are we trying to reach? What are we trying to get them to do? And it's not by any means discounting the importance of the Bar journal. There still will be a bar journal, don't read into that. But it is really stopping to think about why we do the most important things we do. And when we have to do them, who in the building is the best qualified and the best positioned to really make a meaningful impact on those activities? And that carries through with, if I have people that are passionate about producing CLEs that are producing some of the best opportunities out there, I fill up the room with people who care. And you fill up the room with people who are really passionate about a topic and people who are passionate about not only coming to that that meeting, but being able to raise their hand and say, you know what, I, I, I really, I learned about this and I really would like to learn more about running a section, and I really would like to learn more about being on your board.

Chris Schmitt (26:24):
And all of that starts with that energy and passion. And it's gotta, it's gotta come from the inside. We've gotta be leading by example. We've gotta be the ones who are out in front. I think it, that's another mistake the trade associations make is often they are reflexive. They wait until their members say jump, and then they say, how high? And I would much rather get out in front of, front of it and say, our organization is gonna jump, and we're gonna jump for the three following reasons, and we want you all to jump with us.

Matt Besser (26:49):
So I'll, I'll ask you an unabashed leading and softball question. Sure. This, this focus on the passion of your people. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>, we have tried and we're gonna continue to make mental health lawyer mental health a priority this year, and hopefully in the, in the years to come. One of the things we're gonna be talking about is organizational wellness within firms and, and helping firms take a look at their programs and their wellness programs and, and what they're doing. Well, do you think that there's a role to play for this passion mindset, figuring out what your, what your employees, your lawyers, your staff care about?

Chris Schmitt (27:29):
One of the things that I've, I've really appreciated about the efforts that you and others have put in around mental health and wellness is focused specifically on removing the stigma. And I think internally and externally, removing fear and removing stigma is such a important and vital part of cultural change. We're only going to get better as an industry. We're only gonna get better as individual firms or individual organizations like the CMBA if we are willing to take a step back and really put our money where our mouth is and understand that whole people have whole people problems. And having the open door policy is, is great. No. But if people aren't willing to walk through it, it doesn't really matter. Creating a, a culture of trust and acceptance within the organization, but also creating folks that are so genuinely happy in what they're doing and why they're doing it, that they're willing to share that good news.

Chris Schmitt (28:28):
And I, I feel like a, a roadside preacher all of a sudden, but it's the, it's the, the willing, the willingness of, of everybody on the team to really believe in, to really buy into what it is that we're trying to sell out to the community. And, and that starts in, in the house that starts with the, the, the folks in this building, the 25 or so individuals that we're, we're lucky enough to call part of this group. And it really is a day-to-Day focus on making their existence here as meaningful and as fulfilling as it can be. But also with the realization that as a trade association, as a small nonprofit, ultimately we, we rent people, the chances of people staying at a small nonprofit like this for their entire career are very small. And that's okay. But it's the how do we make the three to five to seven to 10 years that they do decide to spend here so meaningful that they go out to whatever their next job is, and they become a, just a, a raving advocate for what we're doing to where we always have a friend out there in the market doing something else that can help us to make that next connection.

Matt Besser (29:33):
To preview a little bit what firms are gonna be hearing from us later in the year in terms of organizational wellness, they don't want their associates leaving after five years. They invest a lot in, in finding recruiting and training associates and unhappy lawyers turn over and leave. And so in addition to making the moral case for organizational wellness within firms, there's a pretty strong proven business case for, for organizational wellness. And it's backed up by data that firms save money by investing in organizational wellness. But that's, that'll be a conversation for another day. And it's

Chris Schmitt (30:12):
The opportunity that starts exactly from the top. Yeah. And if firms really do, if partners really do want to keep folks around, especially young associates, especially staff members, non I don't think we talk about that enough. It's the other people in your firm that aren't attorneys, keeping them engaged and happy and healthy. If it doesn't start from the top, it rings hollow. There's a walk the walk talk, the talk aspect of it that we need not only folks who have grown up in this, we'll call it culture of, of, of wellness culture, of, of mental awareness that we are in now. Yeah. But folks that came up before that was a priority before that was a focus need them to flip the page and really to become part of the solution. Yeah.

Matt Besser (30:55):
Alright. So we've come to the end and you probably thought, whew, I, I got through and you didn't ask me the question,

Chris Schmitt (31:03):
Is it about put putt,

Matt Besser (31:04):
It's about put putt, you knew it was coming and anyone who's heard me talk about Kris Schmidt at all knows that I am obsessed with the putt putt story. Indulge us. Yeah. If we've heard it already, and educate us if we haven't about the putt putt.

Chris Schmitt (31:20):
Sure. What Matt's referring to is in Ohio City, we traditionally had a golf outing that had dwindled over the years. It had gotten down to 40 or 50 individuals, and there was a creative spark working alongside the staff that what if we do something different? What if instead of trying to get five more people to come to the golf outing we, we just completely ripped up the script and we, what we figured out that golf by nature is exclusive, right? It's it's something that you are more likely to have played if you grew up in a wealthy family. It's something that you are more likely to play if you are in a position in your career that you have time off. And a lot of our neighborhood didn't reflect that. And so we thought, well, something everybody can do is mini golf.

Chris Schmitt (31:59):
It doesn't have the same barriers, it doesn't have the same access problems. And so we flipped the script and instead of doing a golf event for a small group, we took over the Urban Community School gym. They're a great partner of ours. And we built a custom nine hole Ohio City themed mini golf course. And our event from went from being 40 or so individuals, mostly older white male individuals, and we made a certain amount of money to being 400 some individuals that were families and were kids and were black and were white and were Hispanic. And we ended up making I think the first year was the same amount that we had made. And by year two, we were making, well, well over double what we were making before. So just the ability to creatively rethink how we were doing something and why, what are our goals and our goals were yes, make money, but if we can make money and make a meaningful difference in the community at the same time, that's our highest and best purpose.

Chris Schmitt (32:54):
And so as we look at our events, as we look at Halloween run, as we look at the annual meeting, as we look at the rock the foundation, thinking about how can we take what's good and make it even a little bit more, I'm, I'm not a believer in the phrase, people say, oh, it's not broke. Don't fix it. It's like, Nope. If it could be better, fix it. Yeah. It, it's, everything can always be better. And so working with the team to identify those opportunities to contribute is, is what's most meaningful.

Matt Besser (33:20):
And if I remember right, you also had folks staffers from from OCI stationed around, right? The putt putt course to, to educate folks about opportunities and ways to be involved,

Chris Schmitt (33:30):
Right? That's right. And we got a lot of volunteer signups that night and folks that were signing up for our Near West Rec program and folks that were signing up for to be part of their block clubs. And the, the ability to tell the, tell the story, nev nothing is ever one focus. Nothing that we ever should do should just be focused on that day. It has to be focused and forward looking to what's the bigger purpose for why we're all here and where we're all headed. Yeah.

Matt Besser (33:52):
Two things about that. One, I don't want anyone out there to think that we're doing away with the golf outing. Yeah. No one's saying that. But the reason I keep talking about the put putt is because it just sort of reflects the type of outside the box thinking that's sometimes necessary. And it reflects a sort of holistic view of a membership organization and the importance of lowering barriers to engagement. There was no way I was gonna let you outta here without talking about put butt someday. I'll stop talking about it, but not today.

Chris Schmitt (34:26):
And that's another one of those phrases I point to is that people say perfect's the enemy of good. Yeah. But good's the enemy of great. And so we need to wake up every morning and figure out how in the world we can fail fast and fail forward and, and get better about what we do.

Matt Besser (34:39):
Well, Chris, thanks for taking the time today. I, I really appreciate it. It's been great working with you so far. It's been great getting to know you. I'm so excited to see what, what you're gonna accomplish and what you're gonna help the team accomplish and, and lead us all through as the face of our bar this year and hopefully for many years to come.

Chris Schmitt (35:01):
Thanks Matt. And it's truly an honor of a lifetime to to be in this seat and to, to get to work with you and the board and, and all the wonderful staff members. And so I'm looking forward to many productive years to come.

Melanie Farrell (35:11):
Thank you for listening. See NBA members. If you want to record your own podcast, it's as simple as visiting c metro bar.org/podcast. We'll do the rest. See you soon with another My bar story.