My BarStory S02E12 - Introducing the Cleveland Legal Collaborative Fellows

The CMBA is proud to present our first class of Cleveland Legal Collaborative Fellows! The Cleveland Legal Collaborative is a brand-new legal resource for people and families who need legal help, but who fall into the justice gap and can't afford a market-rate attorney on their own.

Join Cleveland Legal Collaborative Fellows Abby O'Leary, Joe Javorsky, and Tyler Portner as they talk with Collaborative Director Leslie Wolfe. If you love people with a passion for public service, wait until you hear this!

Transcript

Leslie Wolfe (00:05):
Hi, I am Leslie Wolfe, director of Professional Development and the Cleveland Legal Collaborative at the Cleveland Metropolitan Bar Association. Today we're gonna talk about the Cleveland Legal Collaborative, whin's new Social Justice incubator. With me are the three attorneys who have been selected as the first class of collaborative fellows with me are the three attorneys who've been selected as the first class of collaborative fellows, Abby O'Leary, Tyler Portner, and Joe Dvorsky. Before we start talking to them, I'm gonna tell you a little bit about what the collaborative is, how it works, and some background. Access to justice is a pressing need in Cuyahoga County. One third of all, Clevelanders live below the federal poverty line. Another 60% are living on the cusp of poverty as low income earners striving to make ends meet. In the us, 75% of low income individuals had at least one civil legal need.

Leslie Wolfe (00:59):
In the last year, 90% of those individuals received inadequate or no legal assistance because they couldn't afford a lawyer. Remember, there's no constitutional right to counsel for civil cases, only for criminal defendants. The C MBA's lawyer referral Service receives 1500 calls for help each month, but only a small number of those callers can afford an attorney at market rates. Most self-select out when they hear the cost. The access to justice gap exists when someone makes too much to qualify for a free legal aid, but not enough to hire a market rate attorney through an 18 month incubator program. The CNBA is partnering these three newer attorneys with experienced legal experts so that Clevelanders who can't afford the cost of a lawyer, will have immediate access to real legal help at a reduced rate. The program launched on July 8th, 2024 with Abby, Tyler, and Joe as the first three attorneys. All three are committed to growing a law practice that serves the underserved. They're being paid a stipend and receiving support from the Bar Association to launch their legal practices. And now let's get to know our fellows. Abby, do you wanna start us off?

Joe Javorsky (02:11):
Sounds great. My name is Abby O'Leary. I am originally from the metro Detroit area in Michigan. I always knew I wanted a job serving others and helping people, but I tried out a few different things to figure out what that would be. Ultimately, I planned to be a teacher and then I explored social work and eventually landed on law. I worked as a paralegal to decide whether law school was really the right path for me. I really enjoyed it. And then ultimately came to Case Western Reserve here in Cleveland for law school. During law school, I worked at the Cuyahoga County Public Defender's Office at Legal Aid here in Cleveland, as well as legal Aid in my hometown in Detroit, and at the Greater Cleveland Food Bank doing policy and advocacy work. So this is really, the collaborative is a perfect place to forward my career, work with the, and serve the community that I knew I wanted to serve. I knew that somewhere down the line I would like to start my own law practice. And so this was a great opportunity to start that right out of the gate with the support from the Cleveland Metro Bar Association to begin that right now instead of a few years from now. Wonderful.

Joe Javorsky (03:39):
Joe. My name is Joe Jaworski and I am the most recent graduate of the three of us. I actually just passed the bar here in 2024, and I was trying to determine what I wanted to do with my career. Honestly, this is a, a bit of a surprise for me because in my mind I could see myself working with legal aid or working at a firm, but the opportunity with the collaborative has is really unique, and I decided then that I would go off on my own. But background, let me rewind a little bit. Before I went to law school, I actually used to be an English as a second language instructor. I worked at Tri-C and Kent State in the area, and I was an ESL or English as a second language instructor for a number of years. And then I decided that I, I actually went into a different field, but it was adult training.

Joe Javorsky (04:38):
And then after a while, I think that I just, I wanted to find something else that was maybe more personally satisfying. And then I ended up deciding to go to law school. My first goal with law school, I think the original goal was to work with the population that I had originally as an ESL instructor. I was focusing on international law and immigration law. I worked as an intern at the immigration court here in Cleveland. I also did work with the, I did some legal aid clinics, but I also did work with Catholic Charities and help them out with their legal services team, providing immigration services to area clients. What I realized, I think, through some of these experiences, that it wasn't necessarily an immigration focus that I had a passion for. It's working with people in our area, just everyday individuals. So it was moving from a focus on immigration. It was really working with the individuals who are in this moderate means category, finding different areas I can serve this community. So it's housing, it's family law, it's maybe helping individuals draft their wills in estates. So yeah, this is just a great opportunity that I'm excited to be here about. Thank

Leslie Wolfe (05:56):
You. Thank you. Thank you, Joe. And last but not least, I'm going to turn to Tyler Portner.

Tyler Portner (06:01):
Thank you, Leslie. I am a northeast Ohioan most of my life. I grew up in Ashland, Ohio. Did my undergrad in Lyons, Ohio at the University of Mount Union. I studied philosophy there and communications. I went right to law school after that because there was a question about what you could do with a philosophy degree. I ended up in Cleveland, and very shortly I fell in love with it, and it ended up being a, you know, fruitful four year, or i, I suppose seven years of school total. I graduated into the pandemic in 2020, right. So it passed the bar in 2019, and shortly after, in, in early 2020 jobs, at least for me, were not readily available. I ended up in a document review position that very shortly led me to realize that I wanted to be helping people and meeting with clients and and frankly not staring at a computer screen. So I started taking cases with my weekends and evenings, eventually transitioning to taking cases full time. In order to do that, because the phone needs to be ringing, I would walk dogs and I would work at a bar, a literal bar, not a, not a lawyer bar <laugh> as <laugh> as a bartender, and continue to take cases. This program through the Bar Association, has proven to be an opportunity, potentially for me to continue this solo practice to continue to serve this community.

Leslie Wolfe (07:33):
Thank you, Tyler. I really appreciate that you gave us some of that background. As far as graduating into the pandemic and, and, and that the challenges of starting a law practice by yourself when you're a new lawyer, many of us lawyers know it take, can take decades to build your network and to find your area of specialization and build a base of clients. So it's very challenging. And one of the goals of the collaborative is to support all of the fellows in opening their own solo practices. So we're not just focused on helping shepherd you into the world of representing clients who are underserved currently, but also supporting your practice in general and in, in providing you with resources and guides and aids and mentoring. Can you comment a little bit, Tyler, on what support you are receiving from the CMBA and how it's been going for you so far?

Tyler Portner (08:25):
The experience so far with the Bar Association has been a profound shift in what it means to have a practice. So we are meeting with subject matter experts on a regular basis. People that are figures in the community constant forces. They're helping give us some of the wisdom, wisdom that you would absolutely be missing, that I was absolutely missing for, for the first two, three years of of trying this. It keeps being reinforced that Cleveland is a small community and it's, it's apparent that the Bar Association and the supportive members are invested in this program working out. So the support, the, just the education, it's been excellent.

Leslie Wolfe (09:12):
That's great. So a little more background. We are now in our fifth week since we started meeting as a group on July 8th. And as part of the planned program for this fellowship, the first three months are meant to be spent on education and learning, getting your practices set up, and then starting to talk about actual practice areas, substantive law and, and how to represent clients. Abby, do you wanna share with us how, how the first couple weeks have gone for you?

Joe Javorsky (09:43):
Sure. Along with the different subject matter experts coming to speak with us, we've also taken field trips to different courts, to the justice center. We've spoken with judges and magistrates and court personnel at the different help centers to learn about all of the different resources that we can use as an attorney and resources that we can help guide clients too, when there are things that are things that clients might need help with beyond just the legal system. So to be able to build our network of attorneys and court personnel and nonprofits and other resources that we can use ourselves and guide clients to has been really valuable. And then each of us as fellows also have a practice mentor, so an attorney who we can go to with all of our kind of nuts and bolts behind the scenes business side of things. Questions. Mm-Hmm. <Affirmative>, because that's something that law school really doesn't prepare you for and you need guidance for that from other attorneys who have done it themselves.

Leslie Wolfe (10:55):
Did you have, of those field trips, did you have a favorite or is there one that jumps out as at you as having been a really good experience? Yes.

Joe Javorsky (11:03):
I really liked getting to see the help center at domestic relations court and seeing how people are being helped through that process now, and ways that we as attorneys can potentially do even more than that.

Leslie Wolfe (11:21):
That's great. I'm gonna turn to Joe and ask the same question. Was there a field trip or a speaker that you heard so far in the past month of the collaborative that stands out for you and is memorable?

Joe Javorsky (11:34):
One of the connections that we made over the last month that I actually, I was utilizing this connection this morning was over at the Cleveland Municipal Court, the housing group there. I actually had a question and went to visit one of the housing specialists this morning just so that I could find out an answer to a question for a client. So I really would like to emphasize, is it meeting the judges, meeting the magistrates, and really meeting all the different court personnel have been very, very helpful in knowing that I don't have to have all of the answers, especially starting out and trying to be a sub. I can't be a subject matter expert in everything, but be able, being able to just know where to go to get those questions answered for clients and, and otherwise has been, has been a great help.

Leslie Wolfe (12:30):
That is such a great point you're making because, you know, lawyers who've been practicing for years still encounter new things every single day. I, I always wish there was an easy button, you know, just a repeat once in a while just to get something where I could say, oh, I know this, I've done this one six times, but it never seemed to happen. But just knowing how to evaluate the, the, the problem and who to ask for help or who to call if you need to hash something out, I'm happy that we've been also looking sort of in a broad way at what are the kind of people that we're likely to see coming to us for help through the collaborative. Is that population going to need to be treated in any special way? What should we be sensitive to? For instance, we, we've talked about domestic violence survivors, we've talked about mental health issues and dealing with different communities. We're gonna have some speakers coming in in the next couple weeks to talk about immigrant populations in Cleveland and what their needs might be. Do you, are you guys finding that to be helpful?

Tyler Portner (13:30):
The range of folks that we've gotten, even through the lawyer referral service so far, it's very diverse, wide range of people calling. And because of that, people's backgrounds with the legal system is equally wide and diverse. And so some people are disenchanted, some people are frequent flyers, some people don't know yet, have never been in this system before. So we actually are sort of <laugh>, I don't wanna say gatekeepers, but we are potential facilitators of this new relationship with the legal system. The fact that this could exist for people that may have been priced out historically is so far the feedback has been positive.

Leslie Wolfe (14:14):
It's great. Everywhere we seem to go, when we talk to people in the court, they're so excited about this program. So that makes me excited too. I never really appreciated until getting involved with the collaborative, just how many people are priced out of getting this, the civil legal support they need. You can't pay $300 an hour for a lawyer if you're making $50,000 a year and supporting a family. Right. It's just not gonna happen.

Tyler Portner (14:38):
Right. And I think that's something we've, we've been running into a lot of people. This is the first call they make. Some people, this is the end of the road. We might be the, the chance for them to get this resolved. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>, a lot of people may be in a position where if you're looking at a significant retainer bill from an attorney that you may not pursue what is justice to you. This is why this program exists so that we can so that the gap can be served.

Leslie Wolfe (15:09):
I think we're also having a lot of fun together. Would you guys agree? Yeah,

Tyler Portner (15:12):
For sure. Yes.

Leslie Wolfe (15:13):
Mm-Hmm. <Affirmative>. Yeah. Joe has been bringing in the donuts <laugh>, we've got our coffee station set up, all that. And the biscotti. And the biscotti. Yes. I think we'd be remiss if we didn't comment a little bit on the role of the Legal Aid Society of Cleveland. A lot of people ask us how does, how's it gonna work with Legal Aid? We're excited to, to be a partner with Legal Aid, to be maybe providing a, a, a service and support for where they might, you know, not have the capacity to, to help everyone that comes to them. We're expecting a lot of people who might have an issue Legal Aid can't handle to come to us.

Joe Javorsky (15:47):
Legal Aid does such fantastic things here in Cleveland. I I know Joe and I have both done lots of volunteering with Legal Aid in the past.

Tyler Portner (15:56):
Yeah, same here.

Joe Javorsky (15:57):
And yeah, Tyler too. All, all three of us have done lots of volunteering with Legal Aid and find them absolutely fantastic. But also there are people who make too much money to qualify for Legal Aid, who right now are falling in that justice gap where they're not getting representation. So we are filling in where Legal Aid leaves off, essentially.

Leslie Wolfe (16:20):
Right. And, and part of that is offering, you know, reduced rate engagements some flat fee engagements. Sure. And, you know, price, we've discussed pricing and we're really trying to tailor our pricing towards the needs of the client, the circumstances of the client, and be sensitive to what is appropriate in each case. Really looking at each case case individually. One thing that makes our collaborative a little bit unique is that we are including a stipend for each fellow to help support them. The stipend is really what's, in large part, allowing you all to take this, not a detour, but take the step in your career to spend 18 months focusing on working with people that can't afford a market rate attorney in Cleveland.

Tyler Portner (17:04):
As a person that has tried without a stipend for for a handful of years at this point. It feels a little bit like in in vc in the VC venture capital world, like an angel investor <laugh>, essentially. I love that. The Bar Association believing in this as a model, believing in your ability to do the work and backing up that belief with money <laugh>. Mm-Hmm. And because as, as much as this work is fulfilling this, this work requires a lot out of US. Law school required a lot out of us. The Bar Prep Sure did. I know it's close in, in Joe and Abby's heads close

Leslie Wolfe (17:45):
In the rear view mirror.

Tyler Portner (17:46):
Yeah, sure. There is a need for this to be, be sustainable too. Mm-Hmm. <Affirmative>. So that, that's been my experience with the stipend. I think it's, it's an amazing walking the walk and talking the talk by the CNBA Mm-Hmm. <Affirmative> that this is important to them.

Leslie Wolfe (18:01):
And we've had so many solo practitioners come talk to us about their journey, and I can, I think just about each and every one of them talked about how hard it was to become profitable as a solo attorney. And many, many people hang out their shingle as soon as they finish law school. And there's absolutely nothing wrong with that. But it's not easy at all. Tyler, you've experienced that firsthand and, and I think that we are really set up for success in providing that financial support.

Joe Javorsky (18:29):
I agree. And especially to have the financial support while we are getting all of this education and learning how to kind of get off on the right foot and start doing things the right way and have support to build our practices the way we want them to be from the get go and not feel so much pressure to take on things while we aren't ready yet. Right. To have the time for education and learning. And also know that at the end of the day, we can pay our own bills too. Mm-Hmm. <Affirmative> and get on track to start taking more clients and building our practices.

Leslie Wolfe (19:10):
Yep.

Joe Javorsky (19:10):
The business launched on July 8th. Yeah. So, yep. You know, everything from the website to the business cards to August 8th

Tyler Portner (19:18):
<Laugh>. Yeah.

Joe Javorsky (19:18):
It's

Leslie Wolfe (19:18):
A lot.

Joe Javorsky (19:19):
One month. Yeah. To think about it at, at that at one month. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative> I couldn't imagine trying to, to have that additional pressure of trying to be profitable while trying to build the business at this point. So it is, it, the stipend is just a great way that I can focus on what I think is, is the most important thing right now, which is building the business.

Leslie Wolfe (19:42):
You guys should really give yourselves a round of applause because I can see you every single day working really hard. People are so excited about what we're doing. They're, they're always happy to meet you guys, and you're making us proud and you really are just, you're the face of this program. You know, I don't think there's a, a lawyer out there that, that can't attribute part of their growth and development to other lawyers that mentored them, that helped them. Mm-Hmm. <Affirmative> that were available and, and people love being asked. Isn't that amazing? Mm-Hmm. <affirmative> people. I was always happy when I, a newer lawyer calls and need some help. It's rewarding

Tyler Portner (20:16):
A sentiment. I keep hearing from some of these attorneys that come in to speak and, and you all can, you've heard it too. It's, I, I wish this program existed when I was starting. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. I can say that I, I wish this program existed when I was starting <laugh>, and I suppose I am still starting. That's why I'm very excited for Joe and Abby and, and Future Fellows because this is taking some of the, the guesswork out of doing something kind of scary and you can avoid making some mistakes. I don't know. Hit the ground running. I, I guess

Leslie Wolfe (20:49):
Maybe we could do a few closing, closing thoughts. Anything you want to share about what you're looking forward to with the, the coming months of the collaborative, what you are enjoying the most, and any goals.

Tyler Portner (21:04):
So a goal of mine would be to, while I have some existing client relationships, would to be foster good new ones, we're learning about the importance of client selection as well as client acquisition. That part, I'm really looking forward to the quality of matters versus the quantity of matters. I am interested in getting into courtrooms, both as an observer and as an advocate, as well as just improving document drafting and dispute resolution skills. Things that, you know, may have kind of tangible returns on an entire career.

Joe Javorsky (21:43):
I am looking forward to taking cases in practice areas that are newer to me, but with support to be able to do them well. And then ultimately being able to try different things and eventually narrow down what practice area I would like to focus on more. So

Joe Javorsky (22:05):
I would agree with Abby. I feel the same. Yeah. I feel the same way in that I am also excited to take on cases in different practice areas and kind of get a feel for which areas of law I'd like to focus more on in the coming months. And along those lines, I think also reaching out and finding out just different areas of the community reaching out to see what kind of legal services that they need.

Leslie Wolfe (22:33):
Thank you Tyler and Abby and Joe, for being here. For anyone that wants more information, you can go to the CBA website@cmetrobar.org and click the button that says Collaborative for attorneys and members of the association. We'd love your participation in volunteering in the collaborative. If you're inclined just reach out to me, Leslie Wolf at the Bar Association. I'd be happy to get you involved. And also for aspiring attorneys, newly licensed attorneys or newer attorneys, we are getting ready to roll out the application for the next cohort of fellows. That fellowship is gonna be starting in January and we'll run 18 months. So watch for an email blast coming out. I believe in a couple days that will tell you how you can apply. Join us next time for another My Bar story.