My BarStory - 53 - Pat Espinosa and Pablo Castro

Pablo Castro is an attorney and former magistrate, but he's pursuing his current passion in launching a Jiu-Jitsu academy after coaching Cleveland MMA Champion Stipe Miocic through his multiple world championships (and winning a world Ju Jitsu championship himself). Pat Espinosa has a dream of taking his Hispanic-focused law firm to national heights. Hear these two old friends talk about their path to success, and 

Transcript

Becky Ruppert McMahon (00:05):
Hi, I am Becky Rupert McMahon, chief Executive at the Cleveland Metropolitan Bar Association. Welcome to another edition of the Cleveland Metropolitan Bar Association's, my Bar story. Throughout 2023, the CMBA will be hosting a series of podcasts that have created a living legacy in honor of our 150th anniversary. We'll be bringing you stories from the women and men within our bar membership who have truly made bar history. Now let's get started with another bar story.

Patrick Espinosa (00:36):
Hi, this is Patrick Espinoza. I am a board member of the Cleveland Metro Bar Association and the managing partner and founder of Sus Abogados Latinos Ohio's first fully Hispanic and fully bilingual law firm, and I'm joined today by my friend and colleague, former Magistrate Pablo Castro.

Pablo Castro (00:53):
Hello, I am Pablo Castro, a private, civil and criminal attorney. I just recently had left the Mag Faith Department after 16 years, and had been in public service for about 20 years until now in this new adventure of mine.

Patrick Espinosa (01:08):
Pablo, I guess I owe you some. Thanks. You, I was a newcomer to Cleveland almost 10 years ago, and, you know, you took me under your wing and introduced me to a lot of people in the, in the bar and in in the community. And you know, I used some gratitude for getting me on my feet, but I first wanted to ask you what, why did you want to go into law? Boys wanted to be a lawyer. Did you have family that were lawyers, or how did you get to be a lawyer? And then a magistrate?

Pablo Castro (01:33):
I always inquired when I was going undergrad about the legal career. Then I looked at the LSAT practice questions, and I was like, oh, no, I, I, I can't do this. Which of course, I think a lot of people think that initially. But after further going into undergrad and trying to find out what I'm going to do with this Spanish degree which is what I went to undergrad, the law kind of just fell right in into place. I got a, a minor in philosophy and critical thinking, and it kind of led me towards the, the legal field. So I took the LSAT and it did all the things to get in, and I was lucky to get in. So here I am.

Patrick Espinosa (02:16):
How did you start your career?

Pablo Castro (02:19):
Well, I actually was going to be a, a civil attorney. I worked as a law clerk for Freeman, Damiano and Smith, and they hired me, but then that kind of fell through. And so I was kind of in a, in a panic trying to find some type of legal career. I was luckily able to get into the city prosecutor's office. The timing was right. They needed somebody, I had a friend who just left there who referred me over there. And I, I think one of the best things that happened to me was actually getting into the city prosecutor's office that showed me how to become an attorney and do all the things that I needed to do in my practice. What about yourself, pat

Patrick Espinosa (02:55):
<Laugh>? I have a kind of roundabout story. People, I get a question from mentees and other people that are, they always ask me, you know, why did you wanna be a lawyer? And I always say, I had the same response. It's like, you know, funny you should ask. I didn't wanna be a lawyer. I had two undergrad careers. I began in psychology at the University of Washington. And when I was a senior I decided that I did not wanna be a psychologist. So I decided to travel the world. I lived in China. I lived down in Kana Columbia. I finished my degree at the University of Texas in Arlington with a degree in business. And I did very well. And at that point, I didn't know what I wanted to do, so I decided to keep my options open. So I wanted to pursue both a business degree and a law degree.

Patrick Espinosa (03:39):
I ended up going to the University of Miami where I graduated with a JD MBA, and then started my career as a sports agent, taking some football players from the University of Miami to the NFL. It sounds flashy, but it was more like glorified babysitting and not much contract work because the NFL rookie contracts, they're all the same. At that time, I met my future wife in Miami. She was from Ohio. We decided to move to Texas to start a family. And family emergency brought me to Cleveland 10 years ago with no friends, no job, no network Pablo, I think you're the first person that <laugh> tried to help me along. And at that point, I, I, I was a little lost, and I didn't, I didn't know that I wanted to be an attorney. I applied for legal jobs which was a little difficult.

Patrick Espinosa (04:27):
Not having a network made it difficult. So I also tried for business jobs. When you brought me in to the Ohio Hispanic Bar Association, I started noticing that there was a huge Hispanic population in Ohio. Currently, as of the last census, there's about 150,000 Hispanics in northern Ohio, and there's only somewhere between 20 and 30 Spanish speaking attorneys, those numbers of Spanish speaking populations in southern Florida. And in southern or in Texas, there wasn't such a need. But here in Cleveland, I saw that there was a need for these populations to be represented. And immediately I stopped. I wanted to go into business and jumped into law headfirst, helping people with immigration and, and criminal defense and, and family law.

Pablo Castro (05:12):
So that, that's funny how you say you did not want to be an attorney. 'cause I think similar past, I did not want to be an attorney as well. In fact, I think because I, I got a scholarship for wrestling in college. I was a jock. You know, I initially started as being the, the smart kid in class. And then once I got really good at sports, well, that was what the cool people were doing. And so I kind of more focused on that. But then you mature in undergrad, I matured late in life, and or maybe that's the right time. And then that's when I'm like, well, what am I gonna do with this Spanish degree? I was gonna go into teaching and then teaching wasn't my thing at the time. I thought I'd have a wrestling career as a coach, coach.

Pablo Castro (05:58):
My six sons, two state championships. I have two daughters and a son now. But yeah. And when you mature, then I, I have a Spanish degree, very active in the community, and how else can I actually help out? So, going to law school actually go into public service, being a prosecutor, but then later on, trying to reach out to the community, that's when I started with this idea of that we need more attorneys, not just Hispanic attorneys, but also judges, elected officials, people in the politics, and how do we get to that by voting? Now there's a lot more depth into the political field than just voting, but at the time, that's where I got started trying to reach out different communities. And we had when I was in law school, the Hispanic Bar Association, which was run by Jose Feliciano, and judge Eva, and there were some other ones too.

Pablo Castro (06:47):
And I'm, I know I'm not saying their name, I bla Serrano and, and Jamie Sarra. But then it kind of went dormant for a while. People careers got kind of got in their way, and I understand that 'cause that same thing happened with us. But I wanted to reopen that to try to give the community access to help. With the focus on the Hispanic community, I started gathering the troops, so to speak. I reached out to a lot of Hispanic attorneys. I went and got the bylaws. I activated our 5 0 1 3 C again in Columbus. And we got going, I think it was the second or third year that you came in. There was a Hato Nunes who an attorney down in Akron that helped me out. And then he couldn't really do much anymore. 'cause There was a big long trip. And then you kind of came in like right time, right place. And I tell you, getting it active and doing that, that, you know, you were a big part of bringing that up. So, yeah. Thank you for that.

Patrick Espinosa (07:44):
No, thank you, Adam. I'm, I'm still carrying the torch and hoping more of our Hispanic brothers and sisters join the organization. So, I know that you're still a jock, but I don't think everybody out else out there knows that you're a jock. Can, can you explain how your wrestling kind of never stopped?

Pablo Castro (07:58):
Well, in, in law school, a lot of my, I wrestled in college, got a scholarship, and a lot of my wrestling teammates, they went out and started competing overseas or in the international area with Greco Roman and freestyle. And I went to law school, so I wasn't, I was reading books and not traveling and, and, and wrestling, but I still had that bug or that itch. My college career kind of ended with an injury. And it, it really didn't satisfy my, whatever it was that I had inside of me for competitiveness. And so I fell into jiujitsu. It was my first year of law school, I went in there and I found I was actually not too bad through law school. I competed, and then even after law school and I worked at the prosecutor's office, I started competing and found out that, well, I had a little niche was able to win a lot of big local tournaments.

Pablo Castro (08:52):
And then I fell into this group through my training in the local areas and local as far as martial arts this gentleman named Marcus Martinelli, who is the head instructor and, and developed strong style martial arts. Now, if you're not familiar with strong style, strong style was probably one of the biggest, if not the biggest martial arts mixed martial arts gym in, well, the country, but I would say even in Midwest and, and definitely in Cleveland. And it's the home of Stevie Meic, who is a former UFC heavyweight champion. And so we kind of built a thing together over there. And next thing you know, I am competing in the Pan-American Games and the World Championships, which I've won the Pan-American Games, a purple belt. I've won the World Championships both as purple and a, a black belt.

Pablo Castro (09:40):
I'm one of the first black belt world champions in in the state of Ohio. And I think the only one here in the Cleveland area, the Lonna st. She's a legend in there, and I gotta give her props that she's the first one to win as far as the Black Belt World Champion. But I'm one of the only ones around this area. And I kind of made a little a career out of that. And running around with steep a and there was twofolds, there was that, but then there was also my legal career. And I went from prosecutor from the city, kind of got recruited to go to county. I went to county for a short stint, and then the city wanted me back. So I got an appointment to be a magistrate for Cleveland Municipal Court, which I'd been there for the last 16 years until this past September 15th, where was my last day my last day because I kind of followed that dream of owning my own gym. And I found an opportunity to be able to do that. So under the judicial cannons, I, I had to step down as a magistrate so that I could actually fulfill my dream and, and open up a gym, which we just opened up the Cleveland Institute of Brazilian Jiujitsu, which now is kind of my, my baby and my passion. So

Patrick Espinosa (10:47):
When's the last time you were in a tournament?

Pablo Castro (10:50):
I actually I was very competitive. I won the worlds in 2009, and then in 2012, that's when I won as a black belt. And then I had this run with steep a with steep there was a lot of focus, you know, on, of course, this is, we traveled all over the world, Brazil, England, Australia all over the United States, of course, Vegas, he won the World Championships. And so even in there, a lot of my kind of career took a backseat. Then around 2019, 1819, it was a little break. I started competing again, which I was pretty successful. I had an injury on my knee. It's a pretty catastrophic injury where I totally destroyed my ACL rupture. There was nothing to repair. My MCL was torn LCL and, and patella. And I continued to compete with that injury which got aggravated it and had to have surgery back in 2019.

Pablo Castro (11:47):
Well, that actually put a little hamper on my career. So I focused on the, on the school and the gym, and then my new business. And three years later, I kind of got the itch again in motivation. And so just this past Saturday, I competed at the World Championships at the Master's division and was able to take third place in the world at the black belt level. Of course, I hate losing more than I like winning <laugh>, and I lost in the semifinals. The score was zero to zero, and there was an advantage or a situation where the referee decided that my opponent won. So on that podium, everybody was Brazilian, but myself. But I tell you, it was a great tournament, and it was definitely fun to have my students watch and, and, and, and see me do what I wanted to see them do as well.

Patrick Espinosa (12:34):
Now, are there any aspects of Juujitsu that helps you in your legal career? And then vice versa? Are there any aspects of your legal career that helps you in Juujitsu?

Pablo Castro (12:41):
Oh, yes. And I would go so far as not just Juujitsu, but even wrestling. There's something in wrestling as that went through college, and my son restless too as well, where the quote is embracing the grind. And, and some gyms are saying, embracing the suck. Now, I don't like the way that sounds. I like embracing the grind better, but it's doing stuff that you know, you hate. That's miserable, taking that hard work that, because you know, it's just gonna be you and someone else out there, and there's nobody else to blame but yourself or take credit for any type of failure. And that drive to actually succeed and win will make you do things that'll make a billy goat puke so that you can actually be prepared at the time. I, I ran for a judge back in 2000, well, 2016, but you have to run like 14 and 15.

Pablo Castro (13:28):
And I remember them telling me that you only need to make it to certain meetings here. There's too many. You got one in Soland and you got one in Westlake, and then you got five to try to make three. I made all of them, you know, I sat, you know in certain areas that people wouldn't want to sit, and I went everywhere. So that I was prepared. Now I got the Plain Dealer endorsement. I got I got the Democratic endorsement. I got a lot of the unions and and the support. I had a several tough opponents, and so I beat two of 'em, but I, I lost to the, to the final winner. And I a judge and, and, and a good judge. But what I did was because of the ethics or the work ethics that I've had from wrestling and from a juujitsu, and that's what I like to now, the Cleveland Institute of Brazil and Juujitsu.

Pablo Castro (14:14):
I don't want it to be just a bunch of neat heads beating each other up. We're, we're, we're an academy. We're an institute and trying to teach not just self-defense, but how to deal with anxieties before, during, and after, which carries over to work, interviews, businesses, transactions, and, and, and trials. And, and that's something that I think has carried over. And that I'm seeing that with my children carrying over to them is the work ethic that you that you would do there. And now that I am able to come back and live my dream and that I've been public service for 20 years, and I, I'm still active and wanna be, you know, in, in public service, but not as much as I did before. And now the gym is kind of another public service. I have guys coming in who's lost, you know, a hundred pounds not even knowing that they're working out or dealing with anxieties and traumas in the past. A long answer, <laugh>, you know I could talk forever about it here. So you came in here, you, I remember meeting you when you first started and taking the bar exam, and then you ran your own business. I mean, it's your own firm. And, you know, of course I'm just starting, but I'm jealous that amount of cases that you're managing here, how'd you get into that

Patrick Espinosa (15:29):
Third, third bar exam to be exact? So, I, I also passed in Florida and Texas, and Texas is the, the kind of funny one. Fortunately, and unfortunately my wife and I were living in Texas, and I had, didn't have five years of full-time practice, so I had to take the bar again in Texas. And I studied, I took the bar on the day after I took the bar. My father-in-Law suffered a stroke. He made a full recovery. But my wife being from Cleveland, you know, said she wanted to move back home. She took a chance on me moving to Texas. So I took a chance on her moving to Cleveland, where I had to take the bar again, <laugh> <laugh>,

Pablo Castro (16:07):
Love

Patrick Espinosa (16:08):
That bar. And <laugh>, I, I studied, I studied just as much and maybe even more you know, I was kind of put into that it was a NOL lose situation. And I, I always tell people the story that, you know, I moved here. I knew my wife, her parents and two of her three sisters. I didn't have a job. I didn't have any friends. I didn't have a professional network, and it kind of, you know, lit a fire underneath me. Obviously, it was a little difficult. I applied to take the bar in May when it was set for July. Funny thing, the first week that I moved here, I moved here on, I believe, on May 4th of 2014. And that first week I joined the Bar Association. And on that Thursday, I attended a Meet the Judges event, didn't know anybody.

Patrick Espinosa (17:02):
I met Becky that day. I, the first judge I went to talk to was then judge Michael Donnelly. Okay. And I told him my story, and he was like, Hey, you know what, I'm on the board of bar examiners. Lemme see what I can do, <laugh>. So unfortunately, he couldn't, you know, fast track it with you know, a, a month or so to go towards the bar. But I, I was able to take it in February. And when I got licensed then Judge Donnelley was the first judge I practiced in front of. And we've had a, a good friendship and, you know, glad to call him justice, an amazing role model for me. And I've looked up to him in his accomplishments. That first six months was tough. You know, I, I, fortunately I was licensed elsewhere, so I was able to do at least some legal work.

Patrick Espinosa (17:41):
But when I got here, I started studying for the Ohio Bar, and I used a study course that I had used in Florida and Texas, and I immediately went to the bar exam essays, and I was used to having a good model answer from Florida or Texas, and those model answers didn't exist for Ohio. So I, I complained to the director and she said, Hey, we just moved into this jurisdiction. We haven't had anybody write model answers yet. And she goes, well, you just passed two bar exams. Would you like to try to write some? I said, sure. So she sent five over, and I sent them back and she gave me a call. She said, Hey, we, we love these. If you want it, the contract's yours. So I wrote the model answers to 203rd sorry, 223 previous bar essay questions.

Patrick Espinosa (18:26):
So that kept me busy. I I did pretty well on the, on the bar with your help and, and others. I started networking. I networked as much as I could. A lot of people gave me chances. Majeed Mlu gave me a, a chance at the county a law department, and I started spreading my network. You know, I became eventually became president of the Ohio Hispanic Bar Association took the reins from you and started meeting as many people as I could in kind of spreading the idea of a Hispanic law firm. I think I first mentioned it to Becky back in 2015, 2016. I know I told you back in the day, I was like, Hey, I want a place where, you know, the coffee's served when you walk in the door. There's old school Spanish music being played on the, on the speakers. I

Pablo Castro (19:12):
Remember you telling me the name, <laugh>, the idea for the name. Yeah.

Patrick Espinosa (19:15):
So it was a long hard road. I eventually launched two years ago coming up this January. And we are proud to serve our community. And on, on top of that, with my networking, I also, it's not public service, but I guess it's community service. I sit on a lot of boards in Cleveland to kind of bring light to the fact that the Hispanics in this area are underrepresented. I also sit on the board of the Hispanic Chamber of Commerce, greater Cleveland Partnership here, borderline Festival of International and Fringe Theater. And, and I'm, I'm missing one Global Cleveland. How could I, how could I miss Global Cleveland? Global Cleveland helps all the newcomers through our area, whether they're refugees or people looking to start a business. So now, you know, my passion is networking. And for a long time, I, I had never, I'd been to Cleveland once for three days before I moved here.

Patrick Espinosa (20:04):
And, you know, living all around the world, I've lived internationally. I lived in Florida, Texas, California, Washington State, Missouri, you know, unfortunately, I never heard, heard good things about Cleveland. And then when I moved here, I was like, Hey, this place is great. Why does it have such a bad reputation? And now this place is home. We're, we're not going anywhere. And, you know, I'm striving to make, you know, Cleveland a great place, and that's also being an inclusive place where, you know, we take care of our our brothers and sisters whether they speak English or not. So if

Pablo Castro (20:34):
You could say you're, whether you've done it yet, or you continue to do it, your legacy that you like to leave in the community, both legal and in the Hispanic community, or just community in general, what would you say?

Patrick Espinosa (20:47):
I would have to say it's my, my firm, interestingly enough there, and I've done my market research and I've had other people do research. The concept of a Spanish language speaking branded firm doesn't really exist in most of the country. Yes, you have your southern Florida, Southern California, Southern Texas but there's places where you can go to as far south as to say, like an Oklahoma City, which I've looked into, which, where a firm that is completely dedicated to Spanish speakers doesn't exist, especially here in the Midwest. This concept doesn't exist in Pittsburgh, doesn't exist in Columbus, it doesn't exist in Detroit, and probably super regional. I still have you know, market research to, to do. But I would like my legacy to be that I would like not just a chain, I want this firm to be a nationwide firm that not only caters to Hispanics, but is for Hispanics. Obviously I have other clients who are corporations and, and, you know, non-Spanish speakers. But I, I want everybody to feel like it's theirs. And it started here in Cleveland. I know Cleveland's such a, a, a big city for where a lot of firms started. And you know, that's not gonna stop. I started this firm here, and I, you know, I hope to grow and, and get this concept to go nationwide. That's, that's what I would like my legacy to be.

Pablo Castro (22:03):
And, and why, and, and, and maybe I, I kind of know the answer, but why a bilingual Hispanic catering firm versus just just somebody who practices law and is bilingual?

Patrick Espinosa (22:17):
Because I want law is confusing to most people who aren't in the legal industry. Generally speaking, there's very few times where it's a good thing that you need a lawyer. The ones that come off the top of my head are like, you win the lottery, you should probably go see a lawyer of how to, you know, protect yourself. For adoptions. That's a very happy moment. But besides those two and maybe a couple, handful of others, generally it's a bad thing that you're gonna need a lawyer, whether it's criminal defense, whether you're getting a divorce, whether you're in immigration court, it's always generally something that has a negative connotation. And it's scary. There's legalese that we know, but the general population has no idea of the legal industry. So, one, it's scary, even if it's in your language now, multiply that if you can't understand it in another language, so it is completely shut off to you.

Patrick Espinosa (23:10):
So it's kind of a, a beacon of hope where, you know, my logo, you know, it's a logo of central and South America, and on the logo it says Les Latinos, which means your Latin attorneys, you know, it really shows someone that just looks at the logo. They're like, okay, I have someone that I can speak to in my own language that will understand the law and explain everything's going on. It's something, it's a common occurrence that happens in my firm when I do consultations. I will come into the consultation room and introduce myself and sit down. And clients time and time again, they'll say, Hey, <foreign>, which is, thank God the lawyers speaks Spanish. There are so many times they tell me we, we've gotta speak through translators, that we're not sure if the translators are translating us correctly or if we're understanding the attorneys. So it's very important that people understand that they're able to convey what they want to convey to their lawyer, not through a translator. So it, it really relieves a lot of stress for people that are already going to be under stress for their issue. So it's, I think it's very important to, I'm not saying therapeutic, but kind of just lower the stress and lower the, the mystery around the legal system for people of our community. Yeah,

Pablo Castro (24:27):
I, I think some people may not realize too that the language, but there's also a cultural difference within how different communities interact with professionals and, and within their family. And so I, I did give A-A-C-L-E-A while back when we were with the Hispanic Bar Association with cultural competency in the legal field. And we had different cultures kind of give, discuss the differences or the importance of understanding that. And somebody coming in who is able to not only speak to them and understand, you know, what the feelings behind the actual words that are being presented in the connotation that they're trying to present. But there's also, you know, where you have everybody with their family coming in, and there's, there's a lot more to it than just even the language. And I would liken it to somebody who may have gotten charged in China or, or, or Russia, and now they're trying to talk to the judge and to the prosecutors and their attorneys through an interpreter. And then you get somebody who comes in and speaks English, American English at that, and now you feel a lot more relieved that you're able to express what you wanna say rather than through a translator, which can be very, very intimidating and scary.

Patrick Espinosa (25:44):
So I'm gonna throw you a curve ball. 

Pablo Castro (25:46):
Oh boy, <laugh>,

Patrick Espinosa (25:48):
I, I don't, I don't know if you use it yet, but do you use artificial intelligence in, in your practice? Do you see yourself using it? If, if you don't, do you think you will? Or what are your thoughts on

Pablo Castro (25:59):
I, I, I think if you don't look at where the future of the law's going then you're, you're gonna be left behind in any type of technology. And right now, AI is, is something that's very, very new, but it's gonna be big in, in the legal field and in, in all the fields. In fact, any profession AI is being used, I think you have to be careful to make sure that you don't lose the, the personal strategies and thoughts and, and, and understandings. But using it in, in, in combination with, with ai, I think it's something that I'm not using on everything. But I'm trying to learn.

Patrick Espinosa (26:40):
So where do you see yourself in 10 years? What is your future of law?

Pablo Castro (26:45):
My focus and my dream is gonna be the, the gym and, and the martial arts academies. And I say academies in plural. 'cause I definitely want to expand more than just in one location as, as we're doing really well in twinsburg. But to spread that out. But as far as with my law ha law practice, I'd like to kinda go back to where I don't need to have to take all the cases and I can pick some cases where I can actually give back to the community or go back to public service. I don't know if I'll ever become a magistrate or if I decide to run for judge again. That, that seems to be a topic here lately. But giving back, you know, to the community, helping those less fortunate and being able to use my option of, of practicing because of my other businesses and ventures to, to help those.

Pablo Castro (27:37):
One thing I did a while back where we talked about those that are not represented or underrepresented, we used to not have bilingual ballots here. There was a consent decree that was created on the Department of Justice to, to the Board of Elections on having to put in bilingual ballots because of the percentage of Spanish speaking people that are in Cleveland that go to US flag schools, and under the voting acts of 1965, I believe. And so I was fortunate enough, or unfortunate, however you want to put it, to be elected the chair chair, a co-chair, and then chair of that organization to help keep the bilingual ballots on. And that's something I would say having Spanish ballots for those to be able to read and understand what elected officials, what they do, who we're voting for what the issues are and the topics in their own language. That's something I, I think I would would say would be my civic legacy here, at least in Kiowa County. And what about you? 10 years?

Patrick Espinosa (28:42):
10 years? I would hope to have awa Latinos, at least in the couple of neighboring states, and maybe more I would like to come to a position to where, you know, eventually it's, I I'm gonna, I get torn. At first, I didn't wanna practice law. I didn't know what I wanted to practice law, and then I started, then I really like practicing law, and I really like going to court, and I really like litigating. And first I started out thinking I was gonna go into business, then I went into law. And now as the firm is becoming more successful and finding out that I'm getting dragged back to the business side <laugh>. So now that I like practicing now, I am not gonna be practicing as much as I want to, just to take more managerial and vision for the future duties. I would like to be in a position where I have enough time, like you said, to pick the cases I want to take and obviously have, have my attorneys handle the cases that are coming in the door. But just to give time back to community i'd, I'd love to help more with helping all of the, the immigrants that are coming to Cleveland to make Cleveland a better place. So you know, eventually I see myself part-time practicing, but mostly giving back, like you said, there's it's definitely rewarding and also like that to be you know, part of my legacy. So yeah.

Pablo Castro (29:58):
Any more bar exams?

Patrick Espinosa (29:59):
<Laugh>, maybe <laugh>,

Pablo Castro (30:01):
You know, I, you, you were, you were giving me flashbacks 'cause well, just last year I took the Florida bar as well and, and passed and yeah, after 20 years of taking the Ohio bar than going, taking the Florida bar, it's like, boy, it's like, I feel like a kid again. But it, this time I had a little more experience. So

Patrick Espinosa (30:18):
Florida Bar, it's, it's crazy. You, you feel like when you walk into the Tampa Convention Center, it's like you're walking into that room at the end, the post credit scene in Indiana Jones and the Raiders of the Lost Ark, where you can't see the other end of this warehouse. So that's how Tampa is. I believe when I took it, there was three, 4,000 people taking it. So just desks kind of as far as the eye can see. Yeah, I I didn't enjoy that that much. I don't know, I maybe, maybe I could take another bar. I don't, I'm not sure if I could take one cold, but I probably, I think I could probably study for a week and, and pass one.

Pablo Castro (30:52):
You know, you know, it's, it's one of the only exams where they're actually trying to fail you, <laugh> <laugh>, the way they put the numbers and the median and all the, you know, I don't know the scoring thing, but, you know,

Patrick Espinosa (31:03):
And Well, thank you, Pablo. Congratulations on everything that you've accomplished and, you know, thank you for, you know, taking me under your, when I first moved here and and you know, for your guidance and, and for your friendship.

Pablo Castro (31:15):
Well, you know, thank you one for making me feel like I'm important, but <laugh>. But no, it, it definitely and, and watching you grow is definitely an inspiration even to myself. And it's weird when, you know, the mentee becomes the ment, but I, I, I definitely, I, I appreciate you

Patrick Espinosa (31:31):
<Laugh>. Thank you, Pablo.

Becky Ruppert McMahon (31:32):
Thank you for joining us for today's my Bar story. To hear other bar stories or to check out any of the CBAs other podcasts, please go to Spotify, apple, or wherever you get your favorite podcasts. You can also go to our website@cmetrobar.org slash podcast. We hope you listen again soon.