My BarStory - 48 John Mitchell and Chris Klasa

On this Sunday before election day,, this week's My BarStory podcast features a talk with Taft Partner John Mitchell, co-chair of the Judicial Candidates Rating Coalition, the group that has published Judge4Yourself.com ratings in Cuyahoga County every year since 2002. This talk is more personal, though, as he talks with his colleague CMBA Bar Counsel Chris Klasa about living a life in the law.

Transcript

Becky Ruppert McMahon (00:05):
Hi, I am Becky Rupert McMahon, chief Executive at the Cleveland Metropolitan Bar Association. Welcome to another edition of the Cleveland Metropolitan Bar Association's, my bar story. Throughout 2023, the CNBA will be hosting a series of podcasts that have created a living legacy. In honor of our 150th anniversary. We'll be bringing you stories from the women and men within our bar membership who have truly made bar history. Now let's get started with another bar story.

Chris Klasa (00:36):
Hello, my name's Chris Klasa. I'm bar counsel for the Cleveland Metropolitan Bar Association, and I am here with John Mitchell. John, would you like to introduce yourself?

John Mitchell (00:44):
Hi, John Mitchell. I'm a partner at Tafts de Tinius and Hollister. And a happy Halloween to everyone.

Chris Klasa (00:49):
What made you decide to go to law school?

John Mitchell (00:51):
When I was in high school I had a civics teacher who packed up all of his class and took us down to the Justice Center to watch a trial, and during that trip we had the opportunity to observe a murder trial that was being done live. I, I walked in, I sat in the back of the courtroom and I was absolutely hooked watching that process unfold after

Chris Klasa (01:14):
Law school. What was your first job?

John Mitchell (01:17):
My first job was an assistant county prosecutor with the Cuyahoga County Prosecutor's Office. After watching the trial, I thought that's what I wanted to do, and I went through my undergrad experience in law school experience with the idea that I would be become a prosecutor.

Chris Klasa (01:33):
So have you always practiced in Cleveland?

John Mitchell (01:35):
I have.

Chris Klasa (01:36):
What made you decide to move from the prosecutor's office into private practice?

John Mitchell (01:40):
So, I was in the prosecutor's office for about eight and a half years did a variety of things. I was in the appellate unit, the juvenile unit, something called the Community-Based Prosecution Unit, and then ascended to the major trials unit where I was handling high profile homicides, rapes, public corruption child sex offenses. I felt like I had done, really done it all in my time there. Really enjoyed my public service. I believed in the mission of the office, but like most prosecutors, there comes a point in time where the economics become very challenging. You know, I served under Stephanie Tubbs Jones and I served under Bill Mason when he was the prosecutor. You know, I just could not make enough money to, to raise my family. You know, I had an opportunity to transition into the private sector and I took it figuring, you know, if I didn't like it, I could always go back to the office and continue my career there.

Chris Klasa (02:33):
Any regrets of that move

John Mitchell (02:35):
There? There are times that I miss the action of, of being in trial. I, I miss the people that I worked with. I, I found that both in the police departments that I worked with and the prosecutor's office and many times the public defenders and the private attorneys I dealt with were really committed to the mission and doing the right thing. I missed that camaraderie and that component and the kind of mixing it up and the, the advocacy end of it. Frankly, at times I tend to romanticize that a little bit. You know, you, you forget the stuff you didn't like and really remember the people that you worked with. So I miss that aspect of it. But I found when I moved into private practice that I got a lot of fulfillment out of that as well. And I enjoyed the new challenges, particularly going back and relearning the civil rules, having meaty, substantive cases that, you know, sometimes would take years to unfold.

John Mitchell (03:27):
I enjoy doing those and, and I found that it's a different challenge from the prosecutor's office, whereas, you know, if you, if you had a case in the office that lasted a year, that would be a long time. If you have a case that's wrapped up in under a year in private practice, that's, that's pretty quick. You know, so it's a different mindset with different challenges. I don't regret the move. I think it's made me a better lawyer. You know, there's, there's components of things that I learned in private practice that I never would've been exposed to as an assistant county prosecutor. That's helped me develop it as an attorney.

Chris Klasa (03:57):
Share with me your early impressions of as a young lawyer versus how you look at the profession now as both of our hair is getting grayer.

John Mitchell (04:06):
I, I will say for the purposes of this, not all of this gray hair is for my children. When I was a young lawyer starting out in my career, all I wanted to do was try cases and I wanted to get into trial, I wanted to mix it up. I wanted to learn how to be a trial lawyer. I like to think I was fair with people. I tried to be, but at the end of the day, if, if, if, you know, if we couldn't resolve a case, we would try it. And I really enjoy that. You know, I'm 53 now. I, I still enjoy trying cases. I don't have the stamina I used to, but I still like that challenge. But it's, it's a different challenge because now on this side, you know, unfortunately things like economics play a role in what organizations and individuals decide to do. For whatever reason, cases just are not tried as often as they used to be. And there's a variety of reasons I could talk about for hours on that. But today, at, at this point in my career, I'm happy with the way things have unfolded and I still enjoy the challenge of getting up and, you know, occasionally smearing on the war paint, but I don't do it with anywhere near the regularity I used to.

Chris Klasa (05:05):
Professionally. What accomplishments are the most meaningful to you at this point?

John Mitchell (05:10):
I, I think the ones that are the most meaningful to me is when I, I help people who are facing the most challenging events of their life navigate through that process. You know, when they find themselves on the wrong end of a state or federal indictment, you know, where they're being accused of something. If we can, through our hard work, our attention to their concerns, navigate them through that process in a way that it, it, it's not as onerous as it could be. That's what I really take pride in. I think that we as lawyers have an opportunity to, to change people's lives for the better in so many different ways. Whether it's the c-suite executive who's under indictment, who doesn't understand the process and is going through this for the first time, or it's the pro bono client who maybe has a little more familiarity with the criminal justice system. But regardless, having the opportunity to help people at their worst get through this, the worst events of their life in a positive way where we can really help them is, is what really fuels me in the morning.

Chris Klasa (06:19):
Tell us about your biggest case. What would you say the, the headline, the John Mitchell biggest case? You've got

John Mitchell (06:25):
Chris, I've had a few, and I it would be, I I'm gonna give you a couple different answers. Okay. Alright. I represented somebody pro bono under President Obama's clemency project. This individual had gone to prison for trafficking and crack cocaine back when the sentences were draconian. And he went to prison the year before I took the bar. I give the Federal Defender's Office a lot of credit for this. They, they took advantage of, of President Obama's clemency program, went out and found individuals who needed representation, who potentially could be granted clemency under that program. And there were some conditions like it couldn't be gang gang related. You couldn't be a violent offender. You had to have really had a clean record in prison. And, and my client in that fit all those categories and, and he was gonna serve the rest of his life in jail.

John Mitchell (07:15):
Why the clemency program was so important, Chris, was that there was a recognition that the draconian sentences then were much lighter now. So if he'd been arrested in 2020, he wouldn't have served anywhere near the time that he served. Back in 1995, I drafted the clemency petition. We filed it and my client received clemency from the president of the United States, and he had to serve another year of his sentence in a halfway house. And now he's out and he's a contributing member of society. Now that received a small amount of press, but that was a very important case for me in my career, and that it, to me, exemplifies the best of what our profession can do, taking wrongs, writing those wrongs, and allowing people to go on and live their life. Another case was I represented an individual who was charged in the Cuyahoga County corruption scandal.

John Mitchell (08:08):
He, he was an executive at a, a large international manufacturing company and construction company. He was accused of participating in a bribery scheme with the head of CMHA. And it simply wasn't true. It was not true. He did not do these things. And we negotiated with the United States Attorney's Office and the Assistant United States attorneys handling the case, and they believed he had done those things. And this is back in the DEA Russo days. And well, you know, I, I give my client a lot of credit. He, he was courageous. He had an opportunity to resolve the case. Perhaps we could have secured a sense of probation and, and you can never guarantee a client a sentence, but I couldn't figure out how this person could not have gotten probation if he would've accepted a, a plea offer that was on the table from the United States Attorney's Office.

John Mitchell (08:55):
And he, he was adamant that he did not do this. And we tried the case and he was acquitted of all charges. And my client was the only person acquitted of all charges in the entire Cuyahoga County corruption scandal. And that was another opportunity, you know, by having a very talented team of attorneys to work with, being focused on the facts, rolling up your sleeves, getting into the, the, the weeds of the case. We recognized what the government was saying in this case, and alleging simply was not true. It wasn't accurate. And they were reading into things that we thought or drawing conclusions from things that we, we thought were inaccurate, and we were right. That was a big one. It was an opportunity to send a guy home to his family when he hadn't done anything wrong. That was one of the crowning moments of my career.

John Mitchell (09:40):
There've been a lot, Chris. I've tried a, I've tried murder cases, I've tried rape cases, I've tried public corruption cases. I was a special prosecutor in Mahoning County for the state version of the federal case down there involving the shooting of the then Mahoney County prosecutor, Paul Gaines, and the aggravated murder of someone named Ernie Biello, who was a quasi or alleged to be a quasi mob figure. And I, I've had some very big cases in my career and it's been fulfilling in the sense that when I look back on what I've done and, and the people that I've worked with, and I think the contributions we've made to the legal system and securing justice for people who might not otherwise. Got it. You know, I feel, I feel good about what I've done.

Chris Klasa (10:20):
Can you point to a mentor and what's the best advice that mentor gave you? That

John Mitchell (10:24):
There have been a lot of mentors in my career, and I think that mentoring in the legal profession is something that we try to do, but could always do better. Just spitting out some names. Stephanie Tubbs Jones gave me my first opportunity, my first job, I was just a skinny kid, then skinny kid from North Olmstead who, who wanted to be a prosecutor, and she saw something in me. And I, when I went to work, it, it was with an idea that this is how we're gonna do the job. We're gonna do it the right way. And I, when I went in in the morning, it was with the idea that I never wanted to be in a position where I let her down. Steve Dever, who was an assistant county prosecutor, that again, perhaps saw something in me. And we tried a, a variety of cases together.

John Mitchell (11:08):
He's an outstanding trial lawyer, taught me the art of oral advocacy and how to persuade people. And he did it with just a fundamental embracing of the truth. You know, you can't be scared of the truth was always his line. You know, we as trial lawyers try to, you know, minimize and he would just embrace the truth. And I thought that the way he interacted with juries was something that was enjoyable to watch, like a tactician doing something at the highest level. Rick Bell, who's now a judge, was an outstanding prosecutor. His commitment to public service, he was everything that you would want in a public service. I did the investigation, the Cleveland Catholic Diocese with Rick, he was the primary lead on that. And he was everything that, that the taxpayers would hope their public servants to be was Rick Belled in that case.

John Mitchell (11:56):
And watching him assemble a case, the way I describe it, and it's a poor analogy, is he was like a brick layer. I mean, he would brick after brick after brick and, and he would build a wall and, or a house. And when he was done with a case, it was like there was no other way to go because he would just overwhelmed you with the logic and the evidence in the private sector. Missy Wright, one of my former partners, was a tremendous mentor who was just committed to being the absolute best lawyer you can be and turning out every time an outstanding work product on behalf of the clients, and having incredibly high expectations to the point where you knew if you pleased Missy Wright, you were practicing law at the highest level. And a, and a guy who, who's long retired now, Bob Monon, who recruited me to Thompson Hein when I was there, who taught me that, you know, John, you, you can work really hard.

John Mitchell (12:50):
You, you can do the best for your clients, but you can never forget that this is what we do. It's not who we are. There's a life outside of trying cases and, and being a good husband and a good father to your children, and knowing when to say when, and, and, and Chris, there are people that when this, when we're done here, I'm gonna hang up and say, I should have mentioned this person or that person. Countless judges who taught me how to practice law. Countless practitioners on the other side who taught me how to be a good lawyer like you. You don't have to stand up and in order to prove your point and, you know, take personal shots at people, you know, who made me a, a better lawyer and, and made me appreciate how to practice law the right way. And there are people, I'm, I'm just, I could answer this question the rest of the afternoon.

Chris Klasa (13:37):
So we worked together for a number of years. We did, and I had the pleasure of sitting right next to you for years. And one thing I can, I wanna comment on is you're describing a lot of cases and, you know, high intensity work environment, a ton of work. You're always an early riser, you're always in on Saturdays, and you're always in a good mood, always, regardless of the situation. What's the secret?

John Mitchell (14:03):
I, I would wonder if, if my children would answer that question the same way. No, I, like,

Chris Klasa (14:07):
I very rarely saw a, a

John Mitchell (14:09):
I hear you.

Chris Klasa (14:10):
A a a John Mitchell who wasn't in a pleasant mood. I,

John Mitchell (14:13):
I don't know. I mean, maybe, you know, I I, I would've been content to spend my entire career in, in the county prosecutor's office and, and would've been very fulfilled doing so. I, as I said earlier in this, I believed in the mission, but, but I think at the end of the day, you know, I mean, you have to, you have to love what you do. And if you have to drag yourself outta bed to go into a place to work, well that's, that's probably not the right environment for you. I think that what I said earlier, that we can, as lawyers, really have a rare opportunity that other professions ha don't have, and that is to improve people's lives. And you know, at the end of the day, if you look back and say, you know, either as an assistant county prosecutor, my little slice of Cleveland, Ohio is safer because of what I did today.

John Mitchell (14:57):
And the people living in that particular community have one less thing to worry about because, you know, some troublesome person there is, is no longer in the community. Or, you know, my, my corporate clients can say, oh my God, we had a, a huge issue that, you know, this is off our plate. And or, or somebody that I'm representing in an individual capacity can say, you know, because of John Mitchell's works, then I can sleep a little more silent. I mean, that's something I take pride in. And I don't know if that translates into a, me putting me in a good mood, but, but I feel like we're in a profession that, you know, we really can positively affect change around us. And if I can help with that, that's something I take pride in. Maybe that translates into a positive look outlook on life. And, you know, when you have a positive outlook on life, you know, you don't go home at the end of the day and kick your dog. You know,

Chris Klasa (15:46):
I remember while I was in law school, we would have meetings bef I had like property at 9:00 AM and we would meet at seven 30 in the morning on days. I had like an early class always in a good mood, and I always want to get like the huge thumbs up for that. Thank you. Well, you know, I mean, I remember, I remember that very clearly. I,

John Mitchell (16:03):
I believe, look, I I I don't believe that people perform at their best when they're scared.

Chris Klasa (16:08):
Yeah.

John Mitchell (16:09):
You know, I mean, there are lawyers out there who, who practice law through intimidation and get in your face, and everything's gotta be personal and everything's gotta be putting on the blue face paint. And we're going Braveheart, and we're, we're going to war. I, I don't think that people you work with respond to that way. I think it's okay to set high expectations and explain those expectations, but say, Hey look, you know, this is what we're doing and if we don't do it well, somebody's gonna go to prison, right? So this is what we have to do. And if somebody has, has disappointed, I think, you know, you pull 'em aside and you say, Hey look, here's where you did not meet my expectations. You never do that publicly. And when people, you know, exceed or meet or exceed, then that's when you stand up in front of everybody and say, Hey, look, look at what Chris SSA did on this case. Huge win for us really helped out the client. And I saw you do that again and again, Chris, when we were working together. So, you know, you know, if I'm not stressed out, maybe I'm in a little better mood. <Laugh>.

Chris Klasa (17:05):
So, so what advice do you have for students coming outta law school? Is it still a good career?

John Mitchell (17:10):
Yes, it is still a good career. I'll tell you what I tell my children and that is, look, find what you love and, and do it. Look, I'm not naive everybody, you know, there's economics to every decision you make, but if you go into something solely for money, solely for money, I, I don't think that's a long-term viable career. I mean, you have to be passionate about what you do. You have to love what you do. You have to, to get out of bed in the morning saying, alright, I got this, this, this, my plane. Maybe you're a little stressed, but you're not thinking, oh my God, I gotta do this. You know, it, it is a good career for many of the reasons I described earlier as a bar. I wish we tried more cases. I think that's, I think the ability to go into court and advocate is something that's I said earlier is becoming a law start. I wish that was still there. And it, you know what, what disappoints me, Chris, is I don't think the lawyers coming outta law school today are ever gonna get the opportunities to try cases like, like I did coming out. And frankly, I didn't get the opportunities to try cases like people who came outta law school 30 years before me.

Chris Klasa (18:10):
I get the pleasure of working with you here at the Bar Association, even though we're no longer under the same roof at a firm. Yeah.

John Mitchell (18:16):
You don't have to return my calls. Right.

Chris Klasa (18:18):
I do every time though. And it's true. I'm glad to do it. It's true. I worked with you here on judge for yourself, which is our judicial ratings program. Could you talk a little bit about that?

John Mitchell (18:27):
I, I, yes. I'm very passionate about that. I, I think this is one of the true s services that lawyers provide to the community. A judge for yourself is bipartisan. There are six bar associations that make up the coalition, the Ohio Women's Bar Association, the Norman s Minor Bar Association, the Ohio Prosecuting Attorney's Association, made up of practitioners in Cuyahoga County, the Asian American Bar Association of Ohio, the Cuyahoga County Criminal Defense Lawyers Association, and the CMBA, the Cleveland Metropolitan Bar Association. And what I enjoy about that process is people bring a genuine volunteer approach to that. We don't exist for any purpose other than to inform the public of what we think of potential judicial candidates. We've tried very hard, I mean, the bar associations that I've named there, I think that the judge for yourself is easily the most diverse bar organization that exists in northeast Ohio in the terms of lawyers of all sorts of backgrounds and ethnicities and religious backgrounds, all working together for the common goal in volunteering.

John Mitchell (19:41):
What would be hundreds of thousands of dollars of billable time just to help inform voters when they go to the polls. I mean, nobody caress about who the judges are until they appear in front of one, right? Is is the adage we keep hearing. But in many regards, whether it's in the juvenile courts or the probate courts or in the common police courts on a daily basis, judges are making many times life altering decisions about people. Right. And, and our purpose is to take those practitioners who are in those courts with the many different disciplines. And, you know, we have academics, we have trial lawyers, we have appellate lawyers. We just a, a broad base of people from many different divergent backgrounds, get 'em in a room trying to work towards a common goal. And that is a, to inform the electorate on who we think the best judicial candidates would be using nonpartisan and unbiased criteria.

Chris Klasa (20:37):
It's good work. And let me throw this pitch out there too. If you are a member of this bar association or any of the affiliate bar associations and you wanna get involved with judicial ratings, the door is always open. And we're always looking for people to get involved. Our membership is passionate about this, as John said, and there's always room at the table for everybody. If you had not become an attorney, what alternate career path might you have followed

John Mitchell (21:02):
Prior to going to Ohio State? My undergrad I nearly became a career landscaper. I I, I'm, you know, it may stun people here that, but I'm actually pretty good with my hands. You know, if you want someone to build you a finished desk, I may not be your guy. Alright, let me, but if you need someone who can put together a fence and raise beds to build a garden and, and use it as I did last summer, much to my, my children's chagrin as they were, the labor in that process, I'm not bad. I, and, you know, I can paint without taping. I'm pretty good with my hands. So the point here is that it, had I not gone down that path, I probably would've gone into some sort of contracting, you know, a lot of times at the end of a day in the office, you know, I, I look around, I've sent 75 emails, I've, I've proved a couple of motions or briefs, you know, done some sort of investigation or interview or something like that.

John Mitchell (21:57):
And there's not anything really, I'm tired, but not, there's not really anything tangible. Right. You know, unless the it peoples, you know, do a search of my server, maybe when, when you go home and, you know, the wall was blue and because I painted it, it's now white. I mean, hey, I did that. You know, it looks pretty good. Now. I tell my wife, there's no time limit here. Right? I mean, if it would take a contractor three weeks, it could take me three years, but it'll be done. Well, maybe that's where I would've gone when I retire, I think I, I, I will shut off the light, shut the door on my career in the law, and then move into something where I'm working more with my hands.

Chris Klasa (22:33):
I've always felt that one of the reasons why we got along, it's like no matter, I, I'm a legal industry lifer like you, but with peaks and valleys in this business, I always, in the back of my headset said I could finish drywall. I can always finish drywall. That's right. And people are always looking for drywall finishers, and I

John Mitchell (22:47):
Can do that. Yeah. If things go south let me throw out, John Mitchell does an outstanding job at mowing lawns, <laugh>, you know, <laugh>, I'm optimistic about the future of the legal profession. I think there, there's always gonna plea be a place in it for trial lawyers. Again, maybe not with the frequency I would like, but there's always gonna be a place for us there. I, I'm optimistic about what the future holds. I think the CNBA is an incredible resource. A special shout out to Becky McMahon, who I think does an outstanding job. And, and the many, many volunteers either on the board of the various committees who commit significant amounts of time that they will never be reimbursed for, to make our profession a as good as it can be. And we're always striving to be better, but as good as it can be, they're, and for the right reason. The staff here at the CMBA is outstanding. The way that they take care of the lawyers and the members here in our community, and really a thought leader and a and, and, and a true change agent in our, in our, not in our legal community, but in our community in general.

Chris Klasa (23:47):
Thank you for coming in and sharing your story. I really appreciate it. Judge for yourself.com, that's the website. And you can find our judicial ratings there 24 hours a day, seven days a week.

John Mitchell (23:57):
Thanks Chris.

Becky Ruppert McMahon (23:58):
Thank you for joining us for today's my Bar story. To hear other bar stories or to check out any of the CBAs other podcasts, please go to Spotify, apple, or wherever you get your favorite podcasts. You can also go to our website@cclemetrobar.org slash podcast. We hope you listen again soon.