My BarStory - 46 Meredith Shoop and Caitlin Peterson

Cleveland Metropolitan Bar Foundation President Meredith Shoop has a surprising background. With degrees in fine art painting and philosophy, her interests range from the arts to teaching to tireless volunteering. Her excitement for the work of the CMBF is contagious. She sat down for this personal conversation with CMBA Board Relations and Special Events Manager Caitlin Peterson.

Transcript

Caitlin Peterson (00:05):
Hi, I am Caitlin Peterson. I am the board relations and special events manager for the Cleveland Metropolitan Bar Association, and I'm excited to be joined today by our Bar Foundation President Meredith Shoop.

Meredith Shoop (00:19):
I'm excited to join you, Caitlyn <laugh>.

Caitlin Peterson (00:22):
Good to see you. I wanted to just start by diving in a little bit to you personally. Why did you decide to go into law?

Meredith Shoop (00:30):
I have a little anecdote that I share in response to that question. Well, initially you should know that my first bachelor's degree was in fine art painting, and I finished that bachelor's degree and realized I had no idea how I was gonna feed myself.

Caitlin Peterson (00:42):
Yeah.

Meredith Shoop (00:42):
And also that I didn't want to be a sole individual on an island in by myself in an art studio. I was way too social for that. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. And so while I figured things out, I decided I'd make the very lucrative decision to study philosophy as a second bachelor's degree, <laugh>. And my peers, my my fellow students were all chit-chatting about the lsat, oh, I'm, I'm gonna take the LSAT this Saturday. Are you gonna take the lsat? When are you taking the lsat, Meredith? And it was like, assumed all these people that I was friends with in the philosophy department were taking this thing called the lsat. I was like, well, I don't, I don't know what's the lsat mm-hmm.

Caitlin Peterson (01:23):
<Affirmative>.

Meredith Shoop (01:23):
And they informed me that it's the law student law school admissions test. And my immediate thought was like, well, I love standardized tests, and I am not. I swear I am not being facetious about that. I love standardized tests. I feel like I love trying to game those tests and learn those tests. And I was really excited about it. So I basically went to law school because I was so excited about taking the, the standardized test. But, but the anecdote that I always share is that when I decided to go to law school, I told my mother, and her response to me was, Meredith, the world needs more artists, not more lawyers.

Caitlin Peterson (02:03):
Wow. <laugh>.

Meredith Shoop (02:06):
I'm not sure what that says about my upbringing, but I wonderfully supportive people, my parents and they did in fact support me going to law school as well.

Caitlin Peterson (02:15):
Do you still paint?

Meredith Shoop (02:17):
I do not, no. I, so it's a very fru, it's not like riding a bike mm-hmm. <Affirmative>, when you sit down to paint after being away from it for a year or five years, or in my case 10 years, you have to relearn everything. And it's so frustrating to know that you once had this ability that is you'd have to work really hard to get back. So I believe one day,

Caitlin Peterson (02:37):
Yeah. But

Meredith Shoop (02:37):
It's probably not gonna be until retirement <laugh>.

Caitlin Peterson (02:40):
I run into a lot of members who have that, their attorneys, but they have that artsy background. You see it with all of these lawyer bands that are always out there performing at some of our events. I'm not surprised, but I am surprised. <Laugh>, I didn't know that about you. So did you find that there were any other obstacles? The standardized test didn't bother you, the LSAT didn't, but were there any other obstacles you faced when pursuing law?

Meredith Shoop (03:05):
Again, I'm not sure what this says about me but when I, I, first of all, I didn't even know any lawyers when I went to law school. My parents had one friend who was a, a federal bankruptcy judge, and she was kind enough to sit down with me and just talk about, like, so you think you wanna go to law school? Like, here's a bird's eye view of what that might mean for you. But I have always been a fairly, I, I don't wanna say fearless, but I'm not, I believe that obstacles can be overcome. So I really wasn't too intimidated by the idea that I was gonna be going into a new, new world, a totally different area of study. And I also knew that my studies and philosophy had prepared me well for the kind of thinking that I was gonna need to do in law school. Mm-Hmm. <Affirmative>. But once I got to law school, it was competitive. It was all the things that they say about law school. I went to Case Western and it was a really great experience, but when all of my peers complained about how difficult law school was, I, my line was always, if you think this is hard, you guys should try art school. Mm-Hmm.

Caitlin Peterson (04:03):
<Affirmative>

Meredith Shoop (04:04):
Because there, you're, you can put your heart and soul into a piece of artwork and bring it in for your critique and absolutely fall flat on your face. And I felt like if I put my heart and soul into studying for law school, it was it for me. It was not gonna be a big challenge to to get to where I wanted to go with that effort.

Caitlin Peterson (04:22):
So do you have any advice for students that are coming out of law school, some that might be listening right now? That's

Meredith Shoop (04:27):
A great question. I have so much advice and so much of it depends on what they wanna do and where they wanna go. If they're coming out of law school. I would say my best advice is, keep in mind, I graduated in 2009, so that was in the midst of a very challenging financial time for the whole country and for the legal industry. And so at that time, people with offers from big law firms were having their start dates delayed. They were having their offers revoked because law firms were going, oh, maybe we don't really have the budget to bring in more people. Maybe we don't have the work to keep them busy. Mm-Hmm.

Caitlin Peterson (05:02):
<Affirmative>

Meredith Shoop (05:03):
And I, I even had a short delay of my start date but I had a lot of friends who ended up with very unexpectedly complicated career paths. So they thought, you know, I've, I graduate law school, I'm gonna go and be at a big firm. I've got it all set up. My life is laid out ahead of me. And you get the impression in law school that that is the way to do it. That there's a right way, and that if you're on that path, then you're on the right path. First of all, that path is not for everybody. That path is for a small percentage, maybe 10, 15% at the top of the class. I would say, second of all, and most importantly, that path does not matter. Mm-Hmm.

Caitlin Peterson (05:44):
<Affirmative>. 

Meredith Shoop (05:45):
I have a lot of friends who were on that path and were, and deviated from that path. I have friends who were never on that path, but who got a law degree and went on to have interesting and fulfilling and incredible careers in law. So I guess my best advice would be, first of all, don't assume that because you got into the firm that you wanted when you were a second year going into your second year of law school that that's going to be your path to fulfillment in legal practice. Mm-Hmm. <Affirmative>. But also, if you're not on that path, don't be discouraged. This is a community that has a lot more options than you sometimes realize when you're just coming into it. And really a rewarding career for all kinds of different people who who go into it. Mm-Hmm.

Caitlin Peterson (06:28):
<Affirmative>, are there any career accomplishments that you're most proud of?

Meredith Shoop (06:33):
Career accomplishments? I'm proud of everything about my career. Yeah. I've loved every minute of my career, and for that, I'm proud because I've always had a career that I felt I could be proud of. Mm-Hmm.

Caitlin Peterson (06:48):
<Affirmative>. 

Meredith Shoop (06:48):
I worked with incredible people at Littler Mendelssohn for both my, my second summer in law school, and then over a decade after that. And now I'm in-house with an amazing company called Tamaki. That's, that's based in Finland. I have a career there that I feel like I can, I've always had a career. I feel like I can wake up and look myself in the, in the mirror and be proud mm-hmm.

Caitlin Peterson (07:12):
<Affirmative> of

Meredith Shoop (07:12):
What I'm doing. But I've also taken steps to make sure that my day job as it is mm-hmm.

Caitlin Peterson (07:19):
<Affirmative>,

Meredith Shoop (07:19):
It wasn't my only source of self-satisfaction. Mm-Hmm.

Caitlin Peterson (07:23):
<Affirmative>,

Meredith Shoop (07:23):
C M B A and C M B F come into this conversation very early. Mm-Hmm. <Affirmative>, you know, from the time I graduated law school, I didn't really know what it meant. First of all, as I said, I didn't even know any lawyers

Caitlin Peterson (07:33):
<Laugh>.

Meredith Shoop (07:34):
And I didn't even really know what it meant to be a member of the legal community, but I knew that I had volunteering opportunities with the, the Cleveland Metropolitan Bar Association Foundation, the lawyers giving back programs mm-hmm.

Caitlin Peterson (07:47):
<Affirmative>. And

Meredith Shoop (07:48):
I also knew that if I didn't find some way to connect my legal practice with the world of the arts, I was gonna lose touch with the world of the, of the arts. Completely.

Caitlin Peterson (07:57):
Yes.

Meredith Shoop (07:57):
So, like right outta law school, there I am joining up with the Volunteer Lawyers for the Arts mm-hmm. <Affirmative> and was very active for years was the chair of that committee. Right. And just had a wonderful experience getting to know other oddballs like me, who <laugh> had this artistic background and went to law school anyway, or Yeah.

Caitlin Peterson (08:19):
Or

Meredith Shoop (08:19):
Maybe because of that, I don't know, but met some wonderful people, a number of whom are still good friends today. Yeah.

Meredith Shoop (08:26):
And also did a lot of good work.

Caitlin Peterson (08:27):
Yeah.

Meredith Shoop (08:28):
So you know, if you think about problems that artists face in our community and all over the United States, probably other countries too mm-hmm.

Caitlin Peterson (08:37):
<Affirmative>,

Meredith Shoop (08:38):
The vast majority of artists are not making a lot of money. Mm-Hmm.

Caitlin Peterson (08:42):
<Affirmative>, when

Meredith Shoop (08:42):
You factor in the amount of time they put into their work and the actual sale prices, they realize many of them are making below minimum wage. Mm-Hmm.

Caitlin Peterson (08:50):
<Affirmative>.

Meredith Shoop (08:51):
So this is a community that is very much in need of as, of legal assistance without the resources to procure that assistance. Mm-Hmm.

Caitlin Peterson (08:59):
<Affirmative>.

Meredith Shoop (08:59):
So if you are a person who doesn't have access to assistance, what do you do when you, your landlord kicks you outta your studio or your apartment? What do you do when someone, you want to protect the in intellectual property that's tied to your work? How do you get the, as the assistance you need to make decisions that, that have a legal component to them? And the answer is, you, if, if you don't have an organization like the Volunteer Lawyers for the Arts, you don't. Yeah. I mean, I can't tell you how many really, I, I don't wanna say life or death, but very impactful life experiences came to us mm-hmm.

Caitlin Peterson (09:37):
<Affirmative>

Meredith Shoop (09:37):
From artists and members of the arts community, and we were able to help with just, I mean, what to most lawyers is a very, very modest commitment of pro bono time. Yeah.

Caitlin Peterson (09:48):
Just some time. Yeah.

Meredith Shoop (09:49):
Just a little bit of time and often, very little bit of time. Yeah. and, and also, you know, sometimes it was a referral, sometimes it was, we pick it up, you know, sometimes the people on the committee couldn't take it, but we'd find somebody who could uhhuh

Caitlin Peterson (10:01):
<Affirmative>. 

Meredith Shoop (10:01):
Just getting the the right help to the right people was a very rewarding experience in a way that shaped how I understood my ability to give back. As an attorney in the Cleveland legal community.

Caitlin Peterson (10:15):
Do you have a story that you can share with us, maybe one specific case or some highlight of your time as chair or volunteer with the v l a? In

Meredith Shoop (10:27):
My heart, I'm not an artist or a lawyer in my heart. I'm really a teacher. Folks who know me well know that I have found ways to be a teacher at like every stage of my life. In high school, I volunteered to teach the science curriculum to some students who are on a special curriculum in college and law school. I volunteered to teach SS a t and g r e test prep, and then I also did that for money in law school, <laugh>. And then one, once I was a practicing lawyer for, I don't know, like six years, seven years, I spent every Saturday morning during the school year volunteering to teach a c t test prep to minds matter. Mm-Hmm.

Caitlin Peterson (11:11):
<Affirmative>

Meredith Shoop (11:12):
Students, a very worthy organization, and one that I found tremendous fulfillment from. But back to your question, <laugh>, this is a very roundabout answer. Mm-Hmm. <Affirmative>. I love delivering content to people who want and need it. I very much enjoyed reconnecting directly with the art community that I had previously known as an art student and as an aspiring artist, bringing something back directly to those very same people in terms of content that could help. So V L A not only takes those pro bono cases, but also delivers educational content in partnership with arts communities throughout the region. That was so exciting and so immediate to see that I was bringing something of value directly to the people who I had always looked up to as members of the Cleveland Arts community.

Caitlin Peterson (12:02):
Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>

Meredith Shoop (12:03):
We're sitting down and, and talking about how to deal with intellectual property issues, or how to, how to figure out. There was a, a few years ago, I don't know if you remember, there was this like, big concern, I think is the way I'm gonna phrase it, about whether or not you could serve drinks, free drinks

Caitlin Peterson (12:22):
Mm-Hmm. <Affirmative>

Meredith Shoop (12:23):
At arts events. Okay.

Caitlin Peterson (12:24):
Because that

Meredith Shoop (12:25):
Was like a very common practice. And very often you would have like a tip or a donation jar next to the free drinks.

Caitlin Peterson (12:32):
Okay. So

Meredith Shoop (12:33):
Were they really free? There were all these like, sort of legal questions and issues around it. What licensure did you have to have? Yeah. What kinda, you know, and so that was a, that was a really fun and challenging and interesting set of questions that we got to help the Cleveland Arts community hash out.

Caitlin Peterson (12:48):
This Cleveland arts community in general has just been, it's just such a vibrant and, and nice thing that we have here, not just the physical art, but the performing arts that we have. So if it weren't for people like you that are giving back with their time and talents, then it's hard to imagine what, what could be.

Meredith Shoop (13:07):
I don't think people realize what an incredibly rich artistic community Cleveland has. And you're absolutely right. It's definitely not limited to the visual arts mm-hmm.

Caitlin Peterson (13:16):
<Affirmative>,

Meredith Shoop (13:16):
Although we certainly have that in spades. Mm-Hmm.

Caitlin Peterson (13:19):
<Affirmative>,

Meredith Shoop (13:19):
I'm, I'm guilty of being a huge Cleveland cheerleader, so forgive this, but I, I tell people like, you, you go to Cleveland, you get the cost of living of a very modest city, and you get the arts and amenities of a city that's like five times the size of Cleveland. We are just so fortunate. And then the access to that is so incredible. I mean, I, I'm, I'm talking to a Clevelander, so I know, you know, <laugh>, but we are very, very lucky. Yeah. And, and the health of that community, I think is essential to the health of our community. So the health of the artistic community is fundamental to our culture Yeah.

Caitlin Peterson (13:56):
As

Meredith Shoop (13:56):
A city.

Caitlin Peterson (13:56):
Yeah. And I love what you said too about being a teacher at heart, and you did some volunteering with our three Rs program as well. So you've been going, you did v you've done V l A, you've been on the foundation board, you're volunteering for three Rs. If

Meredith Shoop (14:13):
We're gonna go through all my volunteerism, Caitlyn, this is gonna be like an hour and a half long podcast, but Yes, yes. I did three Rs. I loved it. I had a wonderful time in our local classrooms here in Cleveland. Mm-Hmm. <Affirmative>. I love that content. It's so important and vital for young people to come into their adulthood with the foundational understandings that that content brings. I don't think I'm alone in saying that it is a groundbreaking program. You know, one of the things that I have learned progressively over the years in my volunteerism with the Bar Association Bar Foundation is how spectacular our programming is. But just in the last couple years as I've been on the Bar Foundation leadership advancing through that group

Meredith Shoop (15:01):
It's absolutely hit home for me. Mm-Hmm.

Caitlin Peterson (15:03):
<Affirmative>,

Meredith Shoop (15:03):
We, we are viewed by the rest of the country. The, both the association and the foundation as an elite organization nationally recognized. It's much like our arts community. Our Bar Association Bar Foundation is offering this community something that is truly special and so much better than it has any right to be. And by the way, that is very largely attributed to you and Becky and Mary, and care. Like I, I'm afraid if I say names, then I'm gonna forget names. So I just wanna say every single person on the staff at this association is giving a hundred percent every day. Mm-Hmm.

Caitlin Peterson (15:43):
<Affirmative>

Meredith Shoop (15:43):
And just not afraid to do more.

Caitlin Peterson (15:48):
Yeah. Well, and it's easy to do because you, you guys, our volunteers, our members are willing to do so much too. So we're happy to do it with you guys. <Laugh>. So thank you. I wanna talk about you leading the Bar Foundation, because that is, that's just been incredible. Not even halfway through. We've made some records, we've done some really good work. Where do you see this going?

Meredith Shoop (16:11):
I am so excited about everything that the Bar Foundation is doing right now, that it's almost hard to talk about, like the, the Cleveland legal collaborative is an initiative that is going to change the face of the Cleveland legal community

Caitlin Peterson (16:28):
Mm-Hmm. <Affirmative>

Meredith Shoop (16:28):
And is absolutely groundbreaking in terms of it, of the, the program and the approach. And I'm so excited for the impact that's gonna have on access to justice and on diversity and inclusion in our legal community. The lawyers in Cleveland are stepping up, the law firms in Cleveland are stepping up mm-hmm.

Caitlin Peterson (16:50):
<Affirmative>

Meredith Shoop (16:50):
To really recognize that value, to recognize the value that the Bar Association and Bar Foundation bring broadly to our community. And they're, they're supporting it financially. Lawyers are supporting it with their time and talent as well as their own financial resources. I'm really excited. So this has been a very ambitious year. Mm-Hmm.

Caitlin Peterson (17:14):
<Affirmative>

Meredith Shoop (17:15):
We've got our 150th anniversary, and we're doing this tremendous legacy one 50 campaign in connection with that. And I'm happy to serve, like, if it was any other year, I don't know that I would en I would enjoy my services president as much, and I only say that because, not because I would ever not enjoy my time with the Bar Foundation or association, because I, that has not been the case. But because I am not a president person, <laugh>, I'm, I'm always the vice president, never the president, I'm always happy to be supporting and giving my all, I'm super uncomfortable with the idea of being the face of the organization. <Laugh>, I, I can swallow that. Yeah. I can swallow that for the good work that we're doing this year. <Laugh>, yeah.

Caitlin Peterson (17:59):
Doing great work. And I think having fun doing it as the event manager, I do have to, to talk about the events a little bit. We had that great event at the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame, our hundred 50th Rock the Bar which was just so much fun. But we had,

Meredith Shoop (18:15):
I've gotten lots of feedback that that was the Best Rock event ever. <Laugh>,

Caitlin Peterson (18:20):
We're gonna be running at the zoo for the Halloween run for Justice 22nd year that, that's been going on. I do love all of the puns that were in your latest bar journal article, <laugh>, I don't know how you came up with so many legal and animal puns, <laugh> it was awesome. But I'm really looking forward to the, the Halloween run. Is there anything you're looking forward to about the Halloween

Meredith Shoop (18:41):
Run? The Halloween run is always amazing. Yes. It truly is. If you read my article, I, I talk about how that was, you know, coming into the legal field, not knowing I, I keep saying this, but not knowing any lawyers. Yeah. Not really knowing, like, I was like, I've never been in a corporate environment, you know, I, I have to figure out how to fit in. So like, my whole first year or two of practice, I was like, just don't be weird. <Laugh> <laugh>. And then the first time I go to the Halloween run, I'm like, what do I wear to this? Are people gonna be in costume? I what kind of costume do you wear as a lawyer? We're supposed to be dignified. We're supposed to be respectable. We're supposed to be professionals. Yeah.

Meredith Shoop (19:16):
And so I really, I played it safe. I wore just my, my running clothes <laugh> or I should, honestly, I should say my jogging clothes. Nobody is ever gonna say that Meredith has running clothes, but <laugh> <laugh>, I wore my running clothes and I showed up and I immediately was like, oh, I did the wrong thing. <Laugh>. Yeah. Yeah. It's not that serious. No. And it's, but i's like, I didn't, it was so, such, such an eye-opening experience to realize that like these lawyers that you spend all day every day just trying to impress as a brand new associate are also people mm-hmm.

Caitlin Peterson (19:50):
<Affirmative> and

Meredith Shoop (19:50):
Are one day gonna be your friends and colleagues. Yeah. And you can be yourself. You can just be yourself and your whole goofy self. If that's for that day in that moment, you, you, yeah. It's not formal. It is. And so I've always tried to wear a costume ever since. Yeah.

Caitlin Peterson (20:07):
It's good.

Meredith Shoop (20:09):
But, but I don't wanna stop there because I'm, I'm very excited about the run every year. I am uber excited this year because of the venue. Mm-Hmm.

Caitlin Peterson (20:17):
<Affirmative>,

Meredith Shoop (20:18):
I have to say, I always bring my dogs to the run

Caitlin Peterson (20:20):
<Laugh>.

Meredith Shoop (20:20):
So I am sad that they will not be joining me this year, but it's worth it. Yeah.

Caitlin Peterson (20:25):
Because

Meredith Shoop (20:25):
We're switching from a downtown venue at our C M B A offices and, and the surrounding downtown Cleveland area over to the zoo. Mm-Hmm.

Caitlin Peterson (20:34):
<Affirmative>, which

Meredith Shoop (20:35):
I mean, come on. That's just so cool.

Caitlin Peterson (20:39):
I know it's gonna be fun. So no dogs, but there's gonna be plenty other animals which will be fun to see.

Meredith Shoop (20:45):
Yes. And I think probably, probably, I, I, my costume this year may reflect some of the one or more of the local zoo denizens. Okay. I haven't finalized the details just yet. <Laugh>

Caitlin Peterson (20:56):
Good. I'm excited to see what it is. I also have a costume that I will be coming in, but I'm not gonna share it. You have to be there to, that's

Meredith Shoop (21:04):
Right.

Caitlin Peterson (21:05):
Yes. <laugh>, you have to be there to see it. Halloween is my favorite holiday, so I'm excited. One other question that I did wanna ask you was, if you, if you didn't become an attorney, what career path might you have followed? Is it the arts? Is it the teaching?

Meredith Shoop (21:20):
I mean, honestly, I've been sort of a, a wanderer in life all along. Yeah. You know, I thought I might be a teacher. I thought I might be an artist. I thought I might somehow be, might make a living as a philosopher <laugh>, and now I'm a lawyer. And I don't know. I feel like it, as long as there are people around, I don't think I could have been an artist who is a, like, just often a studio by themselves. I can find meaning and love and happiness in almost any worthy endeavor, as long as I have connectedness with other people. Mm-Hmm.

Caitlin Peterson (21:50):
<Affirmative>.

Meredith Shoop (21:51):
So maybe I would not have found the practice of loss so rewarding if it hadn't been for my connection to the bar. Yeah.

Caitlin Peterson (21:57):
And

Meredith Shoop (21:58):
And our legal community.

Caitlin Peterson (21:59):
I think the answer is there's no other, there's no other place for you, <laugh>. I think you found, I think you

Meredith Shoop (22:04):
Found the right thing. That's true. I tried a lot of things.

Caitlin Peterson (22:07):
It's so perfect for you and all these things that you can do with it. The extracurriculars, the all of the volunteer work that you're, that you've been able to do, not just with the bar, but with other nonprofits. Was there

Meredith Shoop (22:18):
Anything

Caitlin Peterson (22:18):
Else that's on your mind or something you wish I had asked?

Meredith Shoop (22:22):
Oh, that's a good question. I would just close out by saying that it's always a pleasure not only to talk with you, but you know, to work with you. And I wanna thank you for today for the interview and for, I mean, for folks who do not know Caitlyn, she's a powerhouse. She is out there making things happen. I mean, if you think about the tremendous events, just start with that piece alone that the Bar Foundation and Bar Association put on. She is the reason that those things happen. But she's also doing so much more than that. And I realize and see that every day that I get to work with you, Caitlyn.

Caitlin Peterson (23:00):
Oh, thank

Meredith Shoop (23:00):
You. And I, I appreciate the diligence and the dedication, and the competence and the genius and all of it. So thank you.

Caitlin Peterson (23:08):
You still have time to sign up and join us at the Cleveland Metro Park Zoo for the 22nd annual Halloween run for Justice. The run is Saturday, October 28th and starts at eight in the morning. We always have room for last minute sponsorships too. Visit ccle metro bar.org/halloween. Run to register. See you next week.