My BarStory - 28 Judge Deena R. Calabrese and Ian Friedman

We all know Cuyahoga County Court of Common Pleas Judge Deena R. Calabrese as an experienced judge with a background as a prosecutor.  We know CMBA Past President Ian Friedman as a renowned criminal defense attorney. But did you know they are close friends? For starters, Judge Calabrese officiated for Ian's wedding, but they go back much farther, and share more than you know! Join us this week for this special latest edition of MyBarstory. New episodes every Sunday at Noon!

Transcript

Becky Ruppert McMahon (00:05):

Hi, I'm Becky Rupert McMahon, chief Executive of the Cleveland Metropolitan Bar Association. We are excited to bring you this week's my bar story. Throughout 2023, the C M B A will be hosting a series of podcasts that have created a living legacy in honor of our 150th anniversary. The response has been amazing, and these conversations are being shared around northeast Ohio and even the world. Now, let's get started with another bar story.

Judge Deena Calabrese (00:34):

I am Judge Deena. Calabrese. I am a common police court judge for Cuyahoga County. I have been a judge for around 14 and a half years, a member of the Cleveland Metropolitan Bar Association for about 24 and a half years now. I'm here to interview one of my very best friends, Mr. Ian Friedman. Ian.

Ian Friedman (00:56):

Well, thank you. I have to tell you, I could not think of anyone better to do this, uh, with than, than you for those that are listening. Yes, Judge Deena Calabrese, she introduced herself. Uh, we met when she was Deena, and I've still struggled with it over the years. And so for purposes of today, let me settle on. How about Judge Deena? Does that work?

Judge Deena Calabrese (01:18):

Judge Deena's fine. Is that okay?

Ian Friedman (01:20):

Yes. All right. So I'm gonna go with Judge Deena, because we met basically first day, first year of law school. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, uh, at what is now, uh, Cleveland State Law School. We, uh, were good friends from then, and we've, so we knew each other's law students. We knew each other as young lawyers, um, watched ourselves, uh, as you went through the prosecutor's office in private practice, and then into family life. And we've seen ourselves through that. And, and you even, uh, married me. I did, uh, not married me, but you married, uh, Jamie and I, uh, some years ago. And so, again, that is why I could think of no one better. And I appreciate you being here. Thank you.

Judge Deena Calabrese (01:57):

Thanks. I'm excited. Uh, this is a really interesting venture that we're doing right now, and it's something that we talked about before. If you recall, in our history together, we've talked about doing a, he said, she said actually kind of a, a, a, a show. Yeah. Because at the time, we definitely have had different perspectives coming up in the legal profession myself as a former prosecutor, and you certainly as a defense attorney. And we described each other sometimes as the Wiley Coyote and the sheep dog from the old cartoons. Yeah.

Ian Friedman (02:29):

We, um, there's always been a great love there. But yes, we have fought like, no, tomorrow when you were prosecutor, I was a defense lawyer. And you, you know, perfectly well, even when you, uh, sat five feet higher than me on the bench, sometimes you just shook your head like, again, just please keep your mouth shut, <laugh>. Um, but the love is still there.

Judge Deena Calabrese (02:48):

Absolutely. So do we represent what could be the best of lawyers pe two people that don't always have the same perspective, but have always continued to have such a strong friendship?

Ian Friedman (03:01):

I think the best of of lawyers is seen through this in just the fact that there's always been that respect. Mm-hmm. <affirmative> period. And I think that, that, actually, I'm glad you said that because we, obviously, we were, it's an adversarial system. And, and if you can engage with someone and walk away from them still feeling like maybe, I agree, maybe I disagree with what they said, but I respect how they handled themselves and kind of filled in their position. That's really all you can ask for.

Judge Deena Calabrese (03:28):

I think. Uh, I agree with you 100%. Yeah. All right. So let's talk about our lives together. Okay. All right. So we started Cleveland State Law School, as it's now called, uh, many years ago. Yeah. In 1993, I think, is when we began. And we were actually in class together. We were sitting maybe, I think two, two seats down from each other because of our last names. That's right. And so we were in the same section. Do you remember when the professors would call on you in class?

Ian Friedman (03:58):

I do. And, and I remember never having to answer a single question in class. And I think that's what you're talking about

Judge Deena Calabrese (04:04):

Pretty much what I'm talking about. Yes. So why don't you tell the listeners of this podcast what used to happen? Uh, because there was more than one Friedman in our class. Correct.

Ian Friedman (04:13):

There was, and his name was Jeff Friedman, who by the way, I think is the smartest lawyer that I've ever met. He's never practiced a single day. He just put his, uh, he invested throughout. And, and he always used to tell me in law school, Ian, you should invest in Starbucks. And what did I know then? And I was running around and, uh, so forth. And, well, Starbucks is Starbucks and,

Judge Deena Calabrese (04:35):

Uh, right. So our friend, yeah. Our other Freedman friend Yeah. Became invested money in Starbucks in 1993, told us that we should do that. Yeah. We did not do that. We,

Ian Friedman (04:44):

We spent it at Becky's

Judge Deena Calabrese (04:45):

<laugh>. We spent it at Becky's. Yeah. And here we find ourselves. Yeah. So when our professors would call on you, uh, do you remember what would happen?

Ian Friedman (04:53):

I would basically just continue to stare at the professor and not move a single muscle or Twitch. Is that about right?

Judge Deena Calabrese (05:01):

Yep. That's about right. And then what would happen? So they would be looking at this list of last names, and they would always then go to Calabrese, uh, because we were right there in the same row. And we would be right there in the same, because,

Ian Friedman (05:15):

Cuz what do you do with the person who's called by the professor in front of, in the big rooms mm-hmm. <affirmative>, who's called by the professor who just stares at you, doesn't move, doesn't do anything. You have to question, is there something wrong with that person? And so if I attack that person, am I attacking someone who might have something wrong with them? And so the best thing to do is just move on to the next person, which is why you had to answer twice as many questions as anyone else in our section over the course of the years. Yeah.

Judge Deena Calabrese (05:41):

Uh, I think that I definitely learned this Socratic method pretty well. So after law school, we both graduate, you head into, really early on, you decide that you're gonna become a criminal defense attorney. I know. Uh, I went immediately to the prosecutor's office, essentially. And so we started our careers. Our friendship has remained all these years, and we've called upon each other over the years to talk about strategies and our cases and law and all of those kinds of things. What drew you to criminal defense? Ian?

Ian Friedman (06:14):

Believe it or not, when I was in law school, I wanted to be a prosecutor. And in fact, I actually went to law school to be a prosecutor. I think that it's an incredibly noble job. I think the, the best defense lawyer can be a good prosecutor, quite honestly. The, because the prosecutor has charging power and how they look at it and so forth. First year I went to get a job. There was a hiring freeze at the prosecutor's office, and I took a job at a defense firm. And admittedly, I was not happy about it at all. And I remember my dad, you know, telling me, well, you'll learn the other side of it, and then when you do go back to be a prosecutor, you know, you'll know the other side. So I was like, all right. And then I was given a task as a first year law clerk, you know, just looking into a case and, and doing so, I started going through the papers and noticed something that, that stood out.

Ian Friedman (07:04):

And it turned out to be a, a critical, uh, piece of evidence that showed that the person who was being accused should not have been either, should not have been, or, or at least not to that degree. And frankly, I just don't recall anymore what it was. But I remember seeing that and bringing it back to the folks that I worked for and everyone being so excited about it. And cuz as I know today, like when you find that piece of evidence, when someone gets justice, when the result is right, you know, that's why we do what we do. And so when I presented that, that evidence, and that kind of happened, then there was just this feeling like, oh, you know what? This is actually where I'm supposed to be. Um, and I've never looked back, obviously.

Judge Deena Calabrese (07:43):

So what I remember about the beginning of your career was that you had a really significant case at the very beginning that you won. And it was a, a big deal. I remember it being a really big deal because you were a new young criminal defense attorney. I think as I recall, you might have been facing senior prosecutors, uh, in a courtroom that I think I recall being challenging. That was what I recall about the start of your career. It really started with the bang. I remember you winning a big trial. Do you remember what I'm talking about?

Ian Friedman (08:16):

I think I'm wondering if you're talking about the fireman case, the fireman murder case. It might, it might be that Yeah, there were, I mean, you remember it was a different day when we started. So it's been 25 years now. Absolutely. Yeah. They'll be coming up with that. And back in the day, like we tried a lot of cases,

Judge Deena Calabrese (08:31):

A lot more cases than there are now, for

Ian Friedman (08:33):

Sure. Yeah. There just are not, and so there were a lot of cases and, and, you know, and it was not uncommon, particularly if you were trying municipal cases on top of it, you could be doing two a week. Absolutely. Um, I remember one time in Berea I tried a case, it was an Ovi case, and we finished it and the judge said, all right, once the ver the, uh, jury came back with their verdict, he said, all right, let's get started on the next one to the same jury. I said, you know, that, but that's, that's the way it was. Like, we tried a lot of cases back then, and luckily when you're young, you can do it and you can bounce from trial to trial. I know which case it is. And I was there with Keith, who's still my investigator 25 years later. But there's been a, a lot of, a lot of really good cases over the years. Like when you bring that up now and you're asking, what, which case is it? There's like a handful of them that just went across, you know, my head real quick. That's my history, you know? Yeah. And that's kind of the fuel that, that keeps driving it.

Judge Deena Calabrese (09:25):

Your career has really remained steady over the years. Uh, you've really devoted yourself to being a criminal defense attorney. Uh, checking and balancing the system for sure. Uh, and what do you think out of your cases, if you can, is the one that's most memorable. What, what is the most meaningful case that you've had?

Ian Friedman (09:45):

Oof. That's, um,

Judge Deena Calabrese (09:48):

Hard to answer. It, it

Ian Friedman (09:49):

Is hard to answer because there's been so many that have had such meaning, like different meanings. I can think of, you know, the juvenile out in Warren, uh, who was charged with Yeah. Killing her father, which on its face, you know, was like a hopeless cause. But when we really dug down deep, there was so much more to it. And it really defined an area of law. I've been in cases that have just been horrific, you know, and, and, and challenging that have affected communities. Um, and I've had to, you know, really take stock of how that's affected me. It's a hard question to answer because all of them have been so different. The one thing that I would probably say, and I'm thinking about a gentleman, um, who, if he's listening now, I don't need to say his name, he'd know exactly who it is.

Ian Friedman (10:35):

He had been convicted, uh, and was serving life in prison. And, uh, we were hired to just do his appeal. My partner still with me, Eric Nemechek found the needle in the haystack and got another trial, uh, tried it. He was acquitted. And today he and I are best friends. The, the was then client. I, he's not client. I was one of my friends. And I think for me, when you say, which is your favorite one, I think the all I can say to you is this. I love from this profession, the relationships that have been established with all the people who came to me for help at their lowest moments. Because by and large, they're good people in bad situations. And I've been to so many weddings and births of children, and they've been to my weddings. Like the one that you presided over. Yes. There were a lot of former clients that, that were there. And, and they, that's my history. And, and I just love the fact that they always started the same way coming in, usually the conference room and mm-hmm. <affirmative>. And here we are all these years later, you know, sharing our lives, kind of like you and I started off here today, you know, talking about how we've known each other a long time. So for sure. I know that's not a specific

Judge Deena Calabrese (11:43):

Yeah. Your case involving the, uh, the juvenile, uh, the young lady that you represented is one that definitely I remember, um, very specifically. And I remember reviewing, you know, just what I saw certainly in the media and remember, uh, that I was proud of you, uh, for the work that you did on that case. For sure. Thank you. So let's talk about something fun. Yeah. Let's talk about your wedding. What a beautiful wedding it was. Thank you. So I remember being you asking me with Jamie. Yeah. Um, who is also somebody that I love and who is, uh, one of my friends to perform your wedding ceremony. Yep. And you basically left it up to me. Right? So you said basically, Dina a hundred percent marry us. Yes. You just said, marry us. And so what I can tell you is that I spent a lot of time working on your ceremony, and my favorite part of the ceremony was incorporating both Jewish and Korean traditions. Yeah. Uh, and that was something that I, I found very exciting and interesting. But I also remember walking in and seeing like a thousand people and thinking, wow, this is a lot of people here. This is not the wedding at the side of the, uh, side of the river in, in the metro parks or something. This is legit. Do you remember, uh, the ceremony? Do you remember what I talked about?

Ian Friedman (13:00):

I do. And you talked about our, the union and, and love in general and relationships and, and all of that. You're right. There were a lot of people there, but I will say because we got married, she and I later in life and so forth. So for us, it was important not just to have a party, but to be surrounded by those that, you know, we love and, and, and love us. So it really was a reflection of, of lives kind of well lived and, and all the different relationships. Because you saw it was a very mixed group. It was, yeah. Like people were looking around kind of like, wow, this is very, yeah, it was an interesting group.

Judge Deena Calabrese (13:33):

It's an eclectic crowd for

Ian Friedman (13:35):

Sure. There goes. That's right. And, but everyone got along beautifully. And, and, uh, it was, it was great fun. So do I remember it? Absolutely. My, uh, Maddie, my daughter who many here at the, the Bar Association know, because she's been coming with me to the, to the bar and to court and to events since she was, you know, kneehigh and wobbling. She, she of course was there, uh, throwing, uh, uh, pedals down in front of us mm-hmm. <affirmative>. And, and of course our son, uh, Gabriel was, uh, eight months old at the time and came down the, the middle with the wagon, I remember. And, and since then, there's now the third, uh, who's, uh, Emmett, who's, who's now five. Uh, wasn't at the wedding obviously, but, uh, so it's been, it's been good.

Judge Deena Calabrese (14:16):

It was a beautiful wedding and I'm, I was honored to be, um, part of it. You have always had such a strong sense of pride in your Jewish heritage, and you have pieces that you've acquired, one of which was from the Holocaust. I remember thinking about it after we left and looking at that piece of art, really, which is what I considered it at the time. So tell me, what does your background, that background, and the meaning of some of the things that you do now, how does that impact your work as a, as a lawyer,

Ian Friedman (14:49):

I have zero tolerance period for hatred. I mean, just basic, I guess at the end of my day, if you've presided over my wedding, if you end up presiding over me when I'm six under easy to describe mm-hmm. <affirmative>, I have zero tolerance for hate. What's right is right. And what's wrong is wrong. And that's about it. I hope that that's what my kids remember of me. And, and that is exactly, you're correct. That's why I do what I do. I look at the legal system as an opportunity to, to do the right thing. Uh, it does drive me because we all see injustice and it, I don't care what side draw on prosecution, defense, bailiff, whatever. We have questions that come into the courtrooms, right? I mean, how often do we, we just don't know for sure what happened to do my part in it.

Ian Friedman (15:33):

I just do my best to make sure that the system works. I grew up with horrid antisemitism. I've seen it. I'm seeing what's happening today in this country. I, it's terrifying as far as the Holocaust and kind of being a student of history and, and so forth. It's very scary as to where we are. It's kind of a big question. So the personal part is, am I scared today as to where things are? I am. Yes. Uh, does it drive me kind of that, that constitution, does it drive me to, uh, work hard on every case as though it's the only case? Absolutely. It's kind of all one and the same. I guess I'm just wired that way. So I don't, I don't know if I answered that right. No,

Judge Deena Calabrese (16:11):

I think that you did was a big question. Yeah. Yeah. I think that you did. I think that that's something that I've wanted to talk to you about, just ourselves, you know, and I'm, I was always intrigued. I know that you've been doing a lot of traveling lately, and I know that, um, you've been traveling a lot in South America, for example. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, tell me about, uh, some of your most recent adventures. What, what kind of cases are you working on? Yeah. And, uh, what have you been doing?

Ian Friedman (16:34):

I've been fortunate in this practice over the years to, uh, be called upon on interesting matters kinda all over. I mean, I've been kind of just about all over, all over the globe, as you know, most recently. Yeah. I've been down in South America dealing with kind of a cyber trafficking. It's got, there's a lot of, um, different components to it. But I think it's pretty cool kind of sitting here when you ask me that question to thing about why have I been going? Well, yeah. The obvious answer is I'm called upon to represent people. But why? Well, that's cuz I'm a lawyer. So being a lawyer has just really enabled me to do so much more than, you know, kind of what we think of typically the, that the lawyers do, either from the outside, a lay person sees us, you know, in the courtroom on, you know, law and order at night. We, as lawyers know, most of the time we're in rooms, you know, getting papers ready and studying and reading and so forth. But lawyering for me has been really cool because I've met a ton of people. I've seen the world. I've seen so many different types of systems. I've been fortunate to be able to teach, uh, American law and trial law in, in other countries. So to me it's really just been a, a really, um, very enriching, uh, experience for me.

Judge Deena Calabrese (17:42):

So, um, we're here celebrating the Bar Association. I was incredibly proud of you when you were elected president of our Bar Association. Thank you. Tell me about that year of time. It was sort of a weird time because it was C O V I D and there were so many challenges with court and with picking juries and doing all those things. What are some of the highlights from that time? What are you proud of from being the, the president of our Bar Association?

Ian Friedman (18:10):

It was a great year. The reason I was so happy to be president of this particular Bar association, because I've held leadership roles in other associations, um, whether it be the law school, but mostly, you know, criminal defense mm-hmm. <affirmative> associations. This one was different for me because this is all the lawyers, right? Mm-hmm. <affirmative> and I, so I was exposed to so many different people and different types of practices that, you know, on any other day as a criminal defense lawyer, you know, that's not my world. So it was a huge honor for that reason. And you're right, it was some year, you know, Becky McMahon, our ceo, was with me. Like she was my first call in the morning. She was my last call at night. And, uh, she made that, uh, incredible for me. You know, the, the plan was we had this, you know, the, the strategic plan that you're supposed to advance as president, right?

Ian Friedman (19:04):

And it goes down, and it was done with wonderful brains and intentions behind it by people well before me. And so of course, that was what I had to do. But this particular year presented so many unexpecteds, as you said, COVID hit, and all of a sudden we literally just had to switch on a dime. Like, how do we operate? How did that affect, you know, the finances, all that sort of stuff. But again, there's great people, right? Like the president doesn't do anything. The president's a part of it, but if the president's surrounded by good people, then that president works out just fine, if not got

Judge Deena Calabrese (19:33):

Problems. Lucky for you, lucky

Ian Friedman (19:35):

For me, George Floyd, uh, that tragedy occurred and the protests and the issue of race surfaced and the bar, uh, really, uh, stepped up, I thought. And I was, I was incredibly proud of the Bar Association taking the positions it did, and saying, we're not gonna stand on the sideline. Uh, and, and that they really stood as the voice for the bar. And so for me, it helped because clearly to me, I, I saw it, it was wrong end of story. But the bar helped to kind of amplify that story. There were other issues, you know, still, and, and we're going on what now? Four or five years it's been, and yeah, you know, we were trying to be involved with, with the jail issues, you know, where's the new court gonna be? Where's the new jail gonna be? But the private bar was left out of it.

Ian Friedman (20:18):

Well, we decided that wasn't gonna happen, and we forced our way into that discussion. Well, we've not much been around it now, and it's, it's still an issue going on. But the point of it all was that during that year, we really decided to take some, some really strong positions, uh, with, and we realized the power of the bar. I realized, I mean, everyone knew, but the, the power of the bar is really significant here in this town. And, and if you look at its history and what it's done, we really have shaped Northeast Ohio. So when I left it, my hope was that it was just gonna continue to grow and, and still attract lawyers the way that it always has. I mean, it's different today. Covid changed everything. We're all by Zoom now and so forth. Um, I, I like Zoom for certain things, but I love coming here to the bar and sea row and, you know, face to face and so forth.

Ian Friedman (21:09):

So I'm getting long winded and I'm talking well beyond your question, but there was a lot that happened that year. I loved every minute of it. I've, I've been able to talk to other coming presidents, you know, and the call. And, and one came into my house this weekend who's, you know, getting ready to, and said, you know, what'd you think? And how much time did you put in? And any advice? And the one thing that's absolutely clear is, yeah, did I work from morning till night? Absolutely. Did I also then practice? Yes. Did I love every minute of it? Absolutely. And do I miss it incredibly.

Judge Deena Calabrese (21:42):

Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, that's nice to hear. I'm sure. Um, you know, with the anniversary that we're celebrating, what, 150 years, 50 years of our Bar association, what would people be surprised to learn about you? I

Ian Friedman (21:55):

Don't know what would surprise people. I'm putting one back at you. I guess that's the law school. That's what I would've done in law school.

Judge Deena Calabrese (22:00):

You know, I think if you probably would've done that in law school, I think that people would be surprised to see what an excellent father you are. Like. So they, they see you as this criminal defense attorney. You travel all over the place. But what they don't see is you playing with Emmett, the devotion to Maddie, to your children, to Gabe. I mean, you're a great father. And I think that they would be surprised at just how much time you devote to your children. And you know, Jamie of course, pretty significant factor in that. But yes, she certainly, I think that that's something surprising. I think, would they be surprised that you're like a practically perfect vegan almost, right? Except for your, your fish. Except for the fish, right? Except for your fish. The fish. But, uh, you were incredibly healthy, uh, from that perspective. I think that's always interesting. And you're very systematic about it. So, you know, you're very controlled, very careful. I, I don't think they'd be surprised to hear about that either. Yeah.

Ian Friedman (22:54):

That, that's all true. Thank you for the compliment, particularly as to, as to my children. That's, that's why I'm here.

Judge Deena Calabrese (23:00):

Well, and you're, you're a fun dad too. I mean, you're quite a bit, you're, you're pretty easygoing. So I think people might think that, you know, depending on the line, you might be more conservative, but you're really, they're, you're easy going and your children are fun. So you have fun kids that are very, they're exciting, they're interesting people. And I think that, um, they're gonna make their own waves in the world, for sure. Out of all the lawyers that you've met in your life, outside of me of course, of course. Who would you say has influenced you the most? A

Ian Friedman (23:30):

Couple come to mind very quickly. Okay. And they're, this is easy for me, but I apologize to anyone who has spent time and there will be many who have spent time with me and helped me that I won't be able to mention here. I've said this before at when I've spoken at other times, and you've heard me say that, when I was a young lawyer, brand new outta law school, Avery Friedman just came up to me at a, at a hockey game, didn't know me. And we started talking and, and he started telling me about his practice, giving me some advice. And he told me to call his office every Monday, uh, because he would have his office assistant pass me, you know, the first 10 cases of the week. And I was like, really? And sure enough, uh, every Monday I called and he helped to build my practice.

Ian Friedman (24:10):

And the only reason he did it was just to help a young lawyer get started. And what he did for me is, is actually a part of who I am today. And that's why I pass on to the next generation of lawyers. Like I'm obligated to do for them what he did to me. And so what he did was incredibly powerful and it really defines, uh, my practice there. There are others. Mark Gardner was a lawyer who brought me, believe it or not, every Wednesday, he told me to come to his office so he could teach me about Ovi. Cuz he just wanted the next generation of lawyers. Angela Leonardo, who recently passed. We all love, you know, I miss him to death. You know, I remember, you know, when I would call him for advice all the time when I was a young lawyer. And there he was, you know, didn't matter what time it was.

Ian Friedman (24:52):

And I remember one time I called him on some case, and later that night I'd be, I don't know, 1 30, 2 o'clock in the morning, he called me and said, Ian, I was just thinking more about what we're talking about today, and here's really what I've come to think about. And it was just that sort of lawyer is what stands out to me. The ones who love the profession so much that they want to make sure that it's better with the folks who are coming next. That's why I do the new lawyer bootcamp every year. That's like my favorite time of the year, three days spent with, with all of our, our new lawyers here. It's that sort of thing. So, for sure.

Judge Deena Calabrese (25:28):

Yeah. So, out of the judges that you've encountered, which judges have impacted your career?

Ian Friedman (25:35):

<laugh>? Uh, that's the most loaded question. So on the podcast, oh,

Judge Deena Calabrese (25:38):

It doesn't have to be me, doesn't have to be

Ian Friedman (25:40):

Me. I mean, everyone's brought something different because everyone's been presented with a different situation in their courtroom. I've had to present differently. I've had to analyze differently. I've had to dress differently, figuratively, and, and literally, you know, in, in different courtrooms. I think the judges who allow us to try our cases, the judges that allow us, you know, to kind of paint the canvas in the courtroom. And I, I do say it like that when I say paint the canvas for me it's, there's meaning to that. Like every jury I've ever stood before, before I start, I always just kind of close my eyes and I'm quiet looking at them for a second. And the reason is, is cause I'm trying to get that feel and find that, that the beginning of that little path that I see visually. Cause I don't exactly know what I'm gonna say yet until I get in there. I've done all my prep, I'm, I'm confident there mm-hmm. <affirmative>. But where it's gonna go is based upon the feel, the sound, the smell, and everything else in the courtroom. And if, if I have a judge who just allows me to follow that path, obviously within the confines of the rules of evidence and so forth mm-hmm. <affirmative>, that's all I can ask for. And, and every, every case has taught me something. So is it a particular judge? It's a particular type of judge, I would say

Judge Deena Calabrese (26:56):

Seems, uh, like a definitely, uh, a path of a true trial lawyer. Right. Somebody that has really devoted their lives to litigation. What would people be surprised to learn about our friendship?

Ian Friedman (27:09):

That it's so strong?

Judge Deena Calabrese (27:11):

I think so too,

Ian Friedman (27:12):

Right? That it is so strong. Yeah. I mean, I'll, I'll tell one story Okay. About that, that shows our friendship. You and I were in trial, you remember the trial, we don't have to name who it was. Right, of course. And I could not disagree more with your rulings, <laugh>. And you could not even keep like a face of like, patience with me because of what was coming out of my mouth. Like we were both at a place where we wanted to just, just, we were the, whatever it was,

Judge Deena Calabrese (27:43):

We were the Wiley Coyote Yeah. And the she dog that day, that's for sure.

Ian Friedman (27:46):

Yeah. And you said, um, counsel, can you please approach the bench <laugh>? I said, sure, your Honor. And everyone in the room, the jury, everyone could feel the tension that was going on. And and you'll remember I started looking around and I started looking on the floor, and I started looking up at the ceiling, and I started looking behind your bench. And you were like, counselor, what are you doing? And I said, judge, there's no way that this is reality. I'm looking, this has to be, there has to be a camera here. This has to be candid camera. This has to be an absolute joke. There's no way that you're making rulings like this being serious. Like, am I right? Please tell me that this is gonna be on a video somewhere. And you were like, are you being serious right now? And I'm like, well, I'm being dead serious right now. We

Judge Deena Calabrese (28:35):

Definitely disagreed at that moment. Not

Ian Friedman (28:37):

Definitely. Did we,

Judge Deena Calabrese (28:38):

We should say that every time that we've had a trial, I, I have said, we, we tell, we disclose Yeah. That we are friends and we ask if they would like, uh, us to be recused from each other. And the answer is always been, no, no. Judge Calabrese, no. We do not want you to recuse yourself. So we,

Ian Friedman (28:56):

Because they know there's no favor. We're gonna do our jobs. You and me. For sure. And that's the beauty of it. After you told me it was not candid camera and you told me to get back to the table, or I was going through the side door. And for those of you who are not it, no. But, you know, do that. But there still was the love afterwards. Absolutely. That's how best describe us.

Judge Deena Calabrese (29:13):

You know, what I think of us, I, I do think of that moment and I think of that in a, in a good way. And what I also think is that that sort of changed the way that I review even my own rulings. Because later, you know, I realized after listening to you and thinking about the situation, you know, maybe I was wrong, maybe I was wrong. And I had never seen you so passionate about an issue. And I remember reflecting later and then subsequently teaching my own law school classes and thinking at some point later on, you know what, I think that Ian was right. And do you remember me telling you that? I thought that you were right.

Ian Friedman (29:52):

You did. And I appreciate

Judge Deena Calabrese (29:53):

That. So, you know what, at this point I think that, you know, we're in a, a position where we know each other so well that we can go back and say that. I think my favorite times with you are when we're eating dinner together, our kids are together. Yeah. Everybody's playing. Yeah. Uh, everybody's having a nice time. And, um, do you think people would be surprised to learn that I'm a good cook? The cook

Ian Friedman (30:13):

Is incredible. Cook not a good cook, an incredible cook, because with all of my dietary restrictions and allergies, like, it's off the chart. Good.

Judge Deena Calabrese (30:22):

So I do try to make sure that we are, we're following all the rules, but we're making things delicious. So let's wrap this up. Right. So what would you wanna say to this audience here about being a lawyer? And, and I have my own sentiments about being a lawyer because No, please go ahead. I think the people are always naysayers, right? They're always saying things like, Ugh, you wanna go to law school? And we both teach law school. And what I say to my young students is, it's the best job in the world. It gives you insight into the way the people, the way that they think, the way that they operate. You have power that you never thought you would because no is your starting point. It's never you, you can always, uh, shape a situation with your brain, your intelligence, your skill with language. And I think that it's carried me through, especially as a woman, uh, through my career and given me these tools that I've always loved. Uh, and I've always been proud to carry. What do you think?

Ian Friedman (31:18):

For me, being a lawyer, it's just part of who I am. I think that way, because when I get ready to, well, I guess I'm never really away from it, right? It's, I'm a lawyer to find the right to do the right thing. And, and that's just kinda how you, I, I feel one should live their life. So for me, it's one and the same. It's given me great opportunity. Um, like I said, to meet people. I have great experiences. I mean, I have stories that could go on and on and on. And the experiences that I take from it have helped me, you know, guide my kids. I'm an older dad, right? So for me, you know, I have to focus on more of the experiences I could teach them and, you know, cause it's harder for me to go out and, you know, play football with them, right?

Ian Friedman (32:01):

It's given me great lessons, guidance, I, you know, other people's ex experiences teach me. It just really gives me so much. And here at the bar, just as we close this up, I will say about the C N B A as we're coming up on our one 50, when I did my acceptance speech as, as president of the bar, I, I said that, and I've said many times that you find the great lawyers here at the bar for sure. And I meant from that, that, you know, there's great trial lawyers, there's great transactional lawyers, and, and, and then there's, and that's fine. But what to me means a great lawyer is also those people who are also here contributing to the, the legal profession. And making sure, as I told you, those lawyers who helped me, making sure that the next generation has it better. And, and here this is where it's done. And so for me, this place means everything to me. It really does. It really means everything to me. I, I told you I missed my presidency, but I'm still here and I'll do whatever. Everyone in my office needs to be, my students, everyone. I just really hope that this bar association, forget about the next generation of Lars. I hope the next generation of the bar association is stronger than what it is now. That's

Judge Deena Calabrese (33:18):

Absolutely. And that's my 2 cents. Well, if, uh, if we're 150 years going strong, I think hopefully we'll look forward to the future. For sure. Well, thank you for sitting down with me. Thank you. Uh, today. Thank you

Ian Friedman (33:27):

For speaking with

Judge Deena Calabrese (33:28):

Me. Maybe someday we'll do that. He said, she said po Um, that's right. And we'll analyze cases in our future. Did you ever think 25 years ago when we were sitting in our first contracts class or, uh, our, our evidence classes that we would be sitting here today in these roles?

Ian Friedman (33:47):

No, we were, um, <laugh>. We were basically just thinking, uh, we weren't really thinking about tomorrow at that

Judge Deena Calabrese (33:53):

Time. I know. I mean, it was such a fun time in our lives, too. Easy time, and here, easy time. And here we are all these years later. Thank you very much, Ian. I appreciate your time.

Ian Friedman (34:02):

Thanks Judge. Dina. Mm-hmm.

Becky Ruppert McMahon (34:03):

<affirmative>, thank you for joining us for another edition of my bar story. We appreciate the hundreds of you who have downloaded and subscribed to this podcast. Let's keep this conversation going. Visit CLE metro bar.org/podcast to listen, subscribe, and to schedule a recording of your own bar story. See you next week.