This week, we're excited to present an encore presentation of one of our favorite episodes. If you want to feel the power of CMBA and CMBF programs all in one podcast, get ready! Past Volunteer of the Year Award Winner Paul Smith, Esq. learns first-hand stories from Lyndia Zheng (Stephanie Tubbs Jones Summer Legal Adventure), Meagan Holloway-Ragland (Louis Stokes Scholars), and Maryssa Blackman (Minority Clerkship Program).
This week, we're excited to present an encore presentation of one of our favorite episodes. If you want to feel the power of CMBA and CMBF programs all in one podcast, get ready! Past Volunteer of the Year Award Winner Paul Smith, Esq. learns first-hand stories from Lyndia Zheng (Stephanie Tubbs Jones Summer Legal Adventure), Meagan Holloway-Ragland (Louis Stokes Scholars), and Maryssa Blackman (Minority Clerkship Program).
Paul Smith (00:36):
My name is Paul Smith. I'm a licensed attorney in Ohio and I have the pleasure this morning to do this podcast and speak to three wonderful individuals who've been involved in three of the Cleveland Metropolitan Bar Association programs, including the Stokes Scholars Program, the Summer Legal Adventure, also known as studying Tubs Jones Summer Legal Adventure, and the Minority Clerkship Program. So what I'm gonna do first is I just wanna introduce the wonderful cast that we have here today. We're gonna start over here with on the right hand side.
Lyndia Zheng (01:08):
Hi everyone, my name is Lyndia. I am a current sophomore at Beechwood High School. I participated in the Stephanie Tubs Jones Summer Legal Adventure. And the reason that I wanted to join was, first of all, I've been looking for opportunities in the law field since I started high school and my friend introduced me to the summer legal adventure and I applied and I got in and I really enjoyed my experience.
Paul Smith (01:33):
Fantastic. So going right here.
Marissa Blackman (01:36):
Hi, my name's Marissa Blackman. I am a rising senior at Cleveland State University. Hi Marissa. Well, hello. And I was a part of the Lewis Stokes Scholars Program and what motivated me to join this program was that it gave you hands-on experience to the legal field. And it's something that I was really interested in when I was in high school, since I was really involved in mock trial and then talking to Carter St. String at the time, who was with the facilitator for my three RS program. I really got interested in the legal field more and more and this opportunity was something I just couldn't pass up.
Paul Smith (02:12):
Wow. Great. And one more person.
Meagan Holloway Ragland (02:15):
Hi, my name's Megan Holloway. Raglin. Hey Megan.
Paul Smith (02:18):
Hey.
Meagan Holloway Ragland (02:19):
I am a second year student at Cleveland State College of Law and I participated in the Minority Clerkship program this summer. During my first year, I was really looking for opportunities for work. Having summer experience during your, after your first year during the summer is there, it's very competitive. There's so little spots in comparison to the amount of especially paid spots in comparison to the amount of first year students that are looking for these jobs. So it's pretty competitive. So I wanted to take every opportunity and pursue it. So just to maximize my chances of getting something for the summer.
Paul Smith (02:59):
Excellent. Excellent. Well, thank you. Thank you. Thank you for the introductions. So we're gonna start over here with Lindia. Mm-Hmm. Lydia, the Summer Legal Adventure Program. Can you share a bit about your experience in the program and what were the key takeaways for you?
Lyndia Zheng (03:14):
So the Summer legal adventure involves, I think, I think we had 21, maybe a little bit more students who were brought in from all over, I think Northeast Ohio. And we spent three days at the C M B A with different speakers. We learned from a ton of different people. And then we had a couple days at specific universities. We went to Case Western, we went to C S U and we went to Akron School of Law. Wow. We learned from their admissions counselors and we also had a lot of mock law classes, which I really enjoyed. We learned what it felt like to be a law student and through that we could discover if we really wanted to pursue the field of law.
Paul Smith (03:59):
Mock law classes.
Lyndia Zheng (04:01):
Yes. Tell me more. So, one of my favorite ones was taught by Professor Michael Benza at Case Western. Okay. He taught a mock criminal justice class where we went over a case from, I believe like 14 hundreds I wanna say, about these fishermen who were stuck on their boat and they decided to kill a kid and eat him. And then the discussion was, should they be charged of a crime? And it was a very, very interesting discussion. I really enjoyed it and it made me realize I wanna go into criminal justice in the future. That was my favorite case,
Paul Smith (04:36):
Lydia. Was it okay to eat the little child or No?
Lyndia Zheng (04:38):
I believe they ruled that it was okay, but personally, right. It really depends on our time and age versus their time and age. Okay. 'cause Back then it was like, okay, the survivorship of the group versus the one, but I don't think it would be accepted today. <Laugh>. Okay. Right. <Laugh>.
Paul Smith (05:00):
Those were interested in joining the <inaudible> Jones Summer Legal Venture mm-hmm. <Affirmative> program. What did you have to do to apply to get into that program?
Lyndia Zheng (05:09):
The application process was, I think, fairly non-competitive. The first part was a simple online application you send in your resume. Okay. Your name, your basic information. And I think there was a little bit of an essay portion. I think it was like 350 words after that. It was an interview, it was online interview with Ms. Nash, and then after that you got an email within a couple of weeks whether you got in or not. Both me and my friend went through it and we discussed it of course. And I think they're very, very inclusive on who they take. And I really appreciate that because there isn't a lot of good opportunities for high schoolers in the law field, at least that I've been able to find mm-hmm. <Affirmative> and I think this program does a really, really, really great job of showing you all the different opportunities that you have here in Cleveland.
Paul Smith (06:01):
Fantastic. And it, so it lasted for how many days?
Lyndia Zheng (06:04):
It was a one week program, five hours Monday through Friday.
Paul Smith (06:08):
Fantastic. And, and it was a, this is a unpaid, yeah. Okay. Alright. So I'm gonna move right over here to Marissa. Tell us about your journey as a Stokes Scholar and what drew you to the program.
Marissa Blackman (06:21):
My journey as a Lewis Stokes Scholar, this is actually my fourth time participating in the program. Fourth time? My fourth time. Yes. Fantastic. Yes. So I keep coming back every year just because it's so rewarding and I really get to do things that I'm proud of no matter where I'm at and no matter who I'm with, even through Covid, I was really proud of doing what I was doing. And even though it's like reading a book, even though you have done it before Yes. You may get a different meaning out of it each time. Okay. That's
Paul Smith (06:49):
Right. I like that.
Marissa Blackman (06:50):
What drew me to the program was that you get people who really take their time as professionals to take someone under their wing and teach them about what they do. And it was just really interesting. Like I definitely learned that, you know, being a lawyer is not like law and order <laugh> first year. Definitely for sure. Things do not move that fast and it's a lot more reading than it is arguing. So it just really put me hands on, you know, like when I first started getting into legal field, I always thought I wanted to do criminal, I wanna do criminal, I wanna do criminal of course. Right. But now that I'm towards the end of it, I'm like, wow, I really wanna go into labor and employment. In estate planning. What
Paul Smith (07:28):
You gotta tell me, what made you change? What made you, what, what, what, what hit you that said, Hey, I'm not doing criminal law. I'm gonna labor and employment.
Marissa Blackman (07:34):
Labor and employment. I will say it's because of being a black person as black people and maybe I come from a very low income neighborhood, you get taken advantage of because they know that you have no other options when your back's against the wall, you have no choice but to look forward when, you know, some people don't know their back really isn't against the wall. It may be like a little piece of drywall or something, you know. So you get taken advantage of when you don't know your rights. And I, that also drew me to estate planning, also rebuilding generational wealth and enjoying the fruits of your labor in your community.
Paul Smith (08:08):
Okay. Alright. Thank you for that. For those who are interested in the Lewis Stokes Scholars program, what's the application process like?
Marissa Blackman (08:16):
So the application process is, because you can do it as a senior in high school, a graduate, a recent graduate of undergrad or a college graduate, we sort of have to fill out the part that applies to you filling it out as a high school graduate and filling it out. Also as a current college student, you have to fill those points out. They do ask your G P A, but that really doesn't matter. It's more about your experience and what you're interested in. So they can really get a bunch of well-rounded students and you'd have to have a couple references and a letter of recommendation. All four years I had to fill out why I wanted to do this, what draws me to the legal field, what's my passion. And then after that you fill that out and then you get a call, you get an interview or an email. I usually got a call or an email. You get your interview. And then this year I was interviewed by Carter String and Trenton Butler. Last year I was interviewed by John A. Jackson who is the chair of the program. So yeah,
Paul Smith (09:19):
Yeah, yeah. She was one of the co-chairs along with Brandon Brown. Okay. now, now you mentioned that you were in the program for four years? Yes. Okay. So year one were you placed?
Marissa Blackman (09:32):
Oh, it was Covid
Paul Smith (09:33):
<Laugh>. Okay. So, so it it, it was kind of a online kind of discussions. The second year
Marissa Blackman (09:38):
I was placed at Tucker.
Paul Smith (09:40):
Okay. What about the third year?
Marissa Blackman (09:42):
The third year I was placed at the Court of Common pleas.
Paul Smith (09:45):
Okay. And the fourth year? Fourth
Marissa Blackman (09:47):
Year I was placed at the eighth District Court of Appeals.
Paul Smith (09:50):
Wow. So the UX program places people at firms or courts, also places such as legal aid and I think they've even had in the past some, some places such as the Cavs or some corporations. That's fantastic. Let me ask you, what hands on experiences have you had throughout your four years and, and and or what really sticks out to you the most?
Marissa Blackman (10:11):
My second year I was at Tucker Ellis of course. And then I didn't know that depositions are so long or they can be, but in the second year, what
Paul Smith (10:22):
Is a deposition?
Marissa Blackman (10:23):
A deposition is where a the others, the opposing side will interview a witness or someone that is going to testify in this case and just to basically get the value of this person to the case. And they can ask them as many questions as they want under oath, right? Yes. For however long as they want. And the person that I was with, her name is Serena. She is over at Tucker Ellis. And let me just say she was like, you don't have to sit through this if you don't want to. She does asbestos litigation. Serena Holder.
Paul Smith (10:57):
Yes.
Marissa Blackman (10:58):
She was like, you don't have to sit through this if you want to. I was like, well, I'll, I'll sit through it. I didn't know it was gonna be five hours <laugh>. I didn't know that. And it was funny. We were, we thought we were at the end at about two hours and the guy was like, you know what, I'm gonna start this over.
Paul Smith (11:13):
Wow.
Marissa Blackman (11:14):
<Laugh>. So, yeah.
Paul Smith (11:15):
Well, what are some hands on activities that you did that you're involved in that you can think of that you did over the course of the four years, maybe this year
Marissa Blackman (11:22):
With Laura Creed and a group of distinguished individuals in the court of common plea, we realized that we did a lot of motions for tax foreclosures that were people affected by covid. A lot of people don't know you can pay your house off, but you can still get evicted out of your home due to tax or unpaid taxes. Absolutely. So with C H n, we also, with the, the Northeastern Ohio Sewer District, we also had people that represented the utility companies and people who represented fig, which people don't know that if you don't pay them, they go to a collections agency just like every other old bill. And we ran an institute, c h n had a bunch of money that they had to use Cares Act funding. And we saved around 320 people from tax foreclosure Wow. In these institutes. We went through Southeast Cleveland where I'm from, we went to the West side IMP purist. We went to Collinwood, we went to these neighborhoods and saved people from tax foreclosure, whether, how, and we were all volunteering. So this was from 3:00 PM to 7:00 PM Okay. And we were just working with the general public and making sure that we were saying, Hey, we have these resources. That's amazing. Please come use us. Yes.
Paul Smith (12:35):
How did that make you feel?
Marissa Blackman (12:36):
It made me feel absolutely amazing. However, I really don't talk about it because I feel like it's just me doing my mission of leaving Cleveland better than what I found it. Fantastic.
Paul Smith (12:49):
Fantastic. Megan. Hmm. All right. Minority Clerkship program. Tell me about your experience as part of the Minority Clerkship program. What have been the highlights of your role and responsibilities?
Meagan Holloway Ragland (13:02):
Minority Clerkship program. Basically first year law students who come from diverse backgrounds, they're able to go through this process of kind of interviewing mm-hmm. <Affirmative>, submitting applications, writing samples to be considered for a summer work experience that is paid. What
Paul Smith (13:22):
Is the application process actually like? When does this begin? When does it start? Tell me about your process
Meagan Holloway Ragland (13:30):
And why. So it all starts first semester. Your first semester you start learning about it and prepping for maybe like September, October. Wow.
Paul Smith (13:38):
Really?
Meagan Holloway Ragland (13:39):
Probably October. But basically you have to submit either application first you submit an application and your application consists of a writing sample, diversity statement. And then you just fill out some forms and then Sure, sure. They decide if you move forward to the interview process. Uhhuh <affirmative>. So the interview process, it takes place here at the Cleveland Metro Bar Association. In their office, you are interviewed by attorneys from participating employers. Those employers are not necessarily interviewing for their employer, they're just doing like general interview and then kind of like taking notes and stuff for the program. Right. Then you are doing an open universe writing sample. So you are taken to a room, you're given a prompt, you're given everything that you need to know, and you're asked to provide like an additional writing sample, but like, kind of like on the spot. And then after that, you're able to kind of mix and mingle with attorneys from the people who interviewed, did the interviewing. So then after that you're notified of where you're placed.
Paul Smith (14:52):
Nice.
Meagan Holloway Ragland (14:52):
The thing, good thing about this is that your G P A is not considered.
Paul Smith (14:56):
Oh wow. And where were you placed?
Meagan Holloway Ragland (14:57):
I was placed at Squire Patent Box here in Cleveland. Okay. I guess the best part was exploring the different fields of law and being able to work at a firm that kind of has their hand in everything. Getting to know the people, understanding like law firm dynamics, like interpersonal relationships as well as like relationships in terms of like networking and figuring out how to like, maintain long-term relationships and the importance of relationships. It was just all very great to be, I had a great time and I thought it was very rewarding.
Paul Smith (15:33):
Fantastic. Guys, listen, I'm gonna change the questioning up for one second to ask this a fun question. I, I think this is a, a, a cool question to ask. I'm gonna start actually in the middle here with you, Marissa. Imagine you're presenting a case in a courtroom and you get to choose your interest music. What song would play as you walk in?
Meagan Holloway Ragland (15:55):
I need no thought.
Paul Smith (15:57):
Oh. Listen to you now. Marissa, what song is playing? What is the song that's playing when you walk into the courtroom?
Marissa Blackman (16:03):
Bossy by Kise.
Paul Smith (16:05):
<Laugh>. Y'all
Meagan Holloway Ragland (16:06):
Have
Lyndia Zheng (16:06):
Big ones.
Paul Smith (16:07):
Bossy by Kise. Tell me about that song. Why?
Marissa Blackman (16:10):
Because she says, you don't have to like me, but you will respect me.
Paul Smith (16:15):
Ooh. Yeah. And that's what we're doing. That's all right. No
Marissa Blackman (16:18):
Choice but to <laugh>.
Paul Smith (16:21):
So come over here to Lin.
Lyndia Zheng (16:23):
I really don't know. 'cause The music that I listen to at home is a little, first of all, I try to avoid music 'cause I, I get distracted and I have a lot of work and usually I can't multitask if I'm like reading something for school and listening to music. <Laugh>, my favorite song right now is Vienna by Billy Joel, but nice, nice, nice, nice. That's not very entrance walk worthy. I think maybe something from the two thousands, like fun. 'cause I feel like the energy of a courtroom sometimes can be very aggressive. It is very head-on against whoever you're in a courtroom with. So maybe something fun like Britney Spears from the two thousands bring everyone together.
Paul Smith (17:08):
Okay. So
Lyndia Zheng (17:09):
No definite answer. I'll have to think about it. Somewhere
Paul Smith (17:11):
Between Billy Joe and Britney Spears.
Lyndia Zheng (17:13):
Yeah. Somewhere between the two. <Laugh>
Paul Smith (17:15):
Lower here. You said no thought needed. No thought
Meagan Holloway Ragland (17:17):
Needed. So
Paul Smith (17:18):
So give it to us Megan. I have
Meagan Holloway Ragland (17:19):
Two options.
Paul Smith (17:20):
Two options.
Meagan Holloway Ragland (17:21):
Same person, same album. Okay. It's either Alien Superstar by Miss Beyonce Knowles or Pure Honey by Beyonce. Okay.
Paul Smith (17:31):
For those who aren't familiar with those songs, why those songs?
Meagan Holloway Ragland (17:34):
Alien, superstar. And
Lyndia Zheng (17:36):
It's just good
Meagan Holloway Ragland (17:38):
Category.
Paul Smith (17:38):
Is there some lyric in the song that, that those who are unfamiliar might you can tell 'em about?
Meagan Holloway Ragland (17:43):
She says the category is bleep, but she says I'm the bar and I think that's cool 'cause she's the bar. I'm the bar and if I'm walking in, I'm the bar <laugh>, I'm the spectacle, I'm the bar. I'm up
Paul Smith (17:55):
Here now. Watch out now and
Meagan Holloway Ragland (17:56):
Come meet me up here. Okay. Okay. Okay. The other one is it should cost a billion to make the, to look this good, but she makes it look easy because she's got it and they wanna take your technique. Like I said, it is just being the standard, raising the bar, walking in, knowing that you're the one. It's it. And I feel like, you know, if I'm in a courtroom presenting a case, I was told that you have to present certain air of confidence. So
Paul Smith (18:22):
You know the confidence. You lean into that mic. I have to ask you, Megan, have you ever dropped a hot 16 on the mic on a, on a rap track?
Meagan Holloway Ragland (18:29):
Absolutely not. <Laugh>. I can barely remember rap lyrics. Actually, fun fact, I do not memorize rap lyrics. One, I can't keep up. I get tongue tied two. I think it's more fun that way to just never really memorize it.
Paul Smith (18:44):
Okay.
Meagan Holloway Ragland (18:45):
Okay. Song's always new.
Paul Smith (18:46):
Alright, well Megan, we're gonna, we're gonna stay with you for a hot second here. All right.
Meagan Holloway Ragland (18:49):
All right. All.
Paul Smith (18:50):
So tell me about your hands-on experience. What, what hands on experience did you have with the Minority Clerkship program?
Meagan Holloway Ragland (18:55):
Okay. So I was able to, surprisingly I worked pretty closely with a few partners on mm-hmm. <Affirmative> research memos. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>, who did you work with? Emily Svac. She does labor and employment and I worked directly with her to work on like arbitration, questioning like civil rights complaints. And I thought that was pretty cool. I got to do work with various partners and associates in the areas of labor and employment, financial services. I did a few corporate assignments.
Paul Smith (19:26):
Wow.
Meagan Holloway Ragland (19:27):
For one of the partners out of the DC office. I was able to write something as it relates to succession and a family office planning. And I thought that was kind of fun. Wow.
Paul Smith (19:41):
That's, thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Back over to you. Hi Ms. Lindy, how you doing?
Lyndia Zheng (19:46):
Good, how are you? Alright.
Paul Smith (19:47):
So I'm gonna ask you, what specific aspects of the legal field did you explore during this program and how did they impact your career aspirations?
Lyndia Zheng (19:55):
I think this is a very interesting question because I think for me personally, the Summer Legal Academy or Adventure did more for me as to rule out what I don't want to go into Alright. Than what I do. We learned a lot about criminal justice. We had a class on contracts and then we had a class on, I think it was legal procedure. We learned about the amendments based off of those. And based off of a lot of the talks that we had and speakers that we had, I learned that I really want to be making change. Sure. Whether that be to one person, to just my client or to a whole community. And when I was younger, my dream has always been president of the United States, first Asian American woman. You know, that was the goal. That was the dream. Yeah.
Paul Smith (20:45):
Yeah. Yeah.
Lyndia Zheng (20:45):
Unfortunately, I watched Designated Survivor that one Netflix show, and I was like, wait, I don't wanna get assassinated. So that's,
Paul Smith (20:55):
That's probably a thing most people don't want to do. Right,
Lyndia Zheng (20:57):
Right. So I ruled out being president, but I still like politics and after do participating in the summer legal adventure, I ruled out a lot of different fields of law and I really appreciate right now international law. Okay. And international relations. So after participating in the summer legal adventure, I decided to take AP Spanish my sophomore year and I'll be taking AP Chinese my junior year. So hopefully being trilingual can help me in the ways of international relations. And that I think is the biggest way that the summer legal adventure impacted my career aspirations by showing me what I would not be very good in.
Paul Smith (21:38):
Well, you know, it's interesting ly that you said that your experiences helped you rule out what you did not want to do. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. So what were those areas of law that you thought, Hey, I'm gonna do this, then you thought, no, no, no, that's experience.
Lyndia Zheng (21:52):
My mom is a lawyer, so she works closely with the Cleveland Chinese community. Sure. Because there is a very like underprivileged community here in Cleveland and like Chinatown, she really inspired me and she was always telling me about how much she loves her job. She really loves her job. She has three kids, but she still works full-time as a lawyer. What type of
Paul Smith (22:11):
Law does she
Lyndia Zheng (22:11):
Practice? Well my mom's gonna be listening to this, but she, I think she folks, she told me she focuses on business law. Okay. But she does do criminal law and she does do divorces. So kind of a little bit of everything. Like a general
Paul Smith (22:24):
Practitioner
Lyndia Zheng (22:24):
Perhaps. Mm-Hmm. <Affirmative>. But we had a lot of speakers. I remember, I think it was the first day we had two lawyers come in. They were so nice and they were telling us about what they did and helping people. And the biggest thing was that they're very stationary here in Cleveland. Mm-Hmm. <Affirmative>. And I think one of my biggest aspirations is to travel, at least to see the world a little bit before I settle down in one area. Okay.
Paul Smith (22:50):
Megan, in what ways has your involvement in the Mon Minority Clerkship program prepared you for your future legal positions and opportunities?
Meagan Holloway Ragland (22:59):
Well, for one, I truly understand, I guess the time consuming nature of working in the legal profession. That's right. And how it varies from practice to practice, from firm to firm, from firm to court to in-house. And I understand it, I worked it for like a whole summer, like full-time, nine to five plus. What people don't realize is that at some point in your career, and our program director Marissa Darden, she did a really good job of Oh yeah. Kind of incorporating this experience into the program is that as you rise in your profession, the legal profession, and you have to maintain these relationships mm-hmm. <Affirmative>, because anybody could be your potential client. Anybody could be either potential clients or current clients. There is a lot of like social activity that eventually you're gonna have to do and balance with the work that you also have to have done. Say like a lot of the attorneys, the higher ranking attorneys at Squire, they're on boards. They go to like community, very involved with community. Involved community. Okay. And they do all of these different things, hold these different events, get to know all these different people while still doing like a very like, high level, high caliber, high intensity legal work.
Paul Smith (24:24):
You like that?
Meagan Holloway Ragland (24:25):
I, I, I feel like, I think it's good. It's not something that you would do like in your first couple years as an associate for sure. Sure. But it was nice to know what I had to look forward to.
Paul Smith (24:37):
I think we're gonna go to you Marissa. Mm-Hmm. <Affirmative> with this question. Thinking back on your experience, what was the absolute Rose experience? What did you love the most?
Marissa Blackman (24:48):
So at the end of the summer, judge Groves, we had a meeting and you don't really think about the journeys that people took to go where they are. You think, and you hear a name like Judge Groves, you're like, oh, distinguished individual, very accomplished, fantastic
Paul Smith (25:06):
Individual. Yes,
Marissa Blackman (25:06):
Yes. You think of these things or unless you've seen them on their journey, you don't think about the journey. And her telling me that she was first generation law student and how hard it was doing that, getting no funding while doing that and having to fight tooth and nail to be where you're at it, you don't really think about that. And it really made me, it may sound not be like ex extravagant as a rose experience, but being able to connect with someone who is way farther in their career than me and saying like, I'm a first generation too. So being able to identify those struggles and really have, I would say like a rite of passage as a person of color in a professional setting. That was really my rose experience, I would say throughout the whole summer. 'cause I worked with four women of color for black women in the legal field. So more of a rite of passage of what not to do, what to do and how to navigate in these areas.
Paul Smith (26:04):
Megan, what was, what was the, the rose of the, the experience, what was the best part, the thing you love the most, the thing that resonates in your heart?
Meagan Holloway Ragland (26:12):
Like I said, just being able to see what I have to look forward to in a couple years. And I think Squire was a great place for me to kind of see what kind of workplace I'd like to be, be in the types of people I like to be around. Everyone at Squire is so nice. It was very like nurturing. I feel like I learned a lot. I feel like I had access to every one of all levels in terms of, I guess just asking for guidance, getting their take, learning about their journeys, them giving me advice and guidance on how to achieve the things that I'm interested. And it was just very, it was just very nice. I really, I think the people was my favorite part. Just getting to really know them, know how involved they are in the Cleveland community. It was just great.
Paul Smith (26:58):
Fantastic. Ms. Lindia. Yeah, same question. Best part of your experience.
Lyndia Zheng (27:05):
I wanna say that the best part of my experience, I think I have two mm-hmm. <Affirmative>. One is meeting all the other high schoolers who are part of the experience. I go to Beachwood and we are very, we interact with a lot of different schools during sporting events, social media, but at the same time, 20 minutes from where I live is a different school system with an entirely different community, different sets of problems. And compared to where I came from, I think I come from a place with a lot of privilege compared to some other kids who might be living in like literally 20 minutes away from where I live. And it's just such a big difference. But all the people that I met through the program, super nice. We all have a group chat, we all reach out once in a while.
Lyndia Zheng (27:56):
I know a lot of them were seniors, so reading each other's college essays, it was really nice to have people who are going through a similar experience as you with high school, but also sharing the interest of law. Right. So that was my first rose. I think there was so many great people that I met and we all collaborated on different projects during the program. And then I think the second rows would be getting a mentor. So the Stephanie Tubs Jones Summer Legal Adventure. They pair you with a mentor at the end of the program, whether that be a judge, an attorney, someone that practices in the field of law. And I met with my mentor Daniel Thiel about I think two weeks ago we had a call and it was very enlightening to be able to have a one-on-one conversation with someone who went through what I will eventually go through.
Paul Smith (28:52):
How cool is that, Marissa, what is your favorite movie and why?
Marissa Blackman (28:57):
My favorite movie is the Devil's Advocate.
Paul Smith (29:00):
Ooh, why great movie? Why?
Marissa Blackman (29:03):
Because I love Al Pacino movies. Actually, let me change that. I'm definitely between The Godfather and devil's advocate. You can tell I love Al Pacino movies. But both show personal development and personal dilemmas on whether or not you are doing the right thing. And both of the characters progress to be their worst nightmare, which is just really interesting. And it's a man versus man dilemma versus not a man versus universe like a lot of movies.
Paul Smith (29:30):
Very well said. Mm-Hmm. Same question that we're here, Ms. Ly
Lyndia Zheng (29:33):
As a high school teenage girl, my favorite movies will probably are still rom-coms or legally Blonde. Ooh. Flipped is so good. But pick
Paul Smith (29:44):
One. Pick
Lyndia Zheng (29:44):
One. One of the questions I think was your favorite, favorite legal show. I love suits. I know that's not a movie, but it's a great show. And I also really loved my cousin Vinny. Okay. That was a great show. So you
Paul Smith (29:59):
Had to pick one great movie. If you had to pick one movie, what would be your favorite movie?
Lyndia Zheng (30:02):
My cousin Benny. Yeah. I really enjoyed the scene where the most popular scene of course, where the lawyer's interviewing the witness. And then she goes on this 20 minute spiel on why the talk cars, tires are this way. It really shows how any information and any knowledge can be important. And you should never doubt yourself based off of what you know or what you don't know. That's right. Because you can always learn more. And also it's just a really fun movie in general.
Paul Smith (30:29):
I agree. I agree. Mm-Hmm. <Affirmative>, Megan. Mm-Hmm. <Affirmative>, what is your favorite movie
Meagan Holloway Ragland (30:33):
Right now? I would say that my favorite movie is Dune Dune Dune.
Paul Smith (30:40):
Why? I don't, I've never seen Dune.
Meagan Holloway Ragland (30:43):
So Dune is like this high fantasy sci-fi movie. It's based off a book by Frank Herbert. Okay. And basically the struggle between the oppressed and the oppressor. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative> and I like it because, and this is what I like about the sci-fi genre in general, is that a lot of it mirrors real life conflict. Dune is actually, it mirrors the conflict in Afghanistan and the seventies between, I guess broadly the West and Afghanistan, the use of natural resources oil. Okay. And in June there's a conflict over this substance called spice. But essentially it powers the universe. It powers everything and they harvest it and they do it at the expense of the people who were on that planet originally. I just think that it's nice to be able to find like imaginative ways to portray like real people's experience. 'cause I feel like people have a hard time understanding until they take themselves out of it. So if you can watch something like Star Wars or Dune or Hunger Games or something like that and you're like, oh, I totally get this, then you can pretty much get everybody's personal issues when it comes to like maybe ethnicity, race, gender. Sure. All those types of things. Sure. natural resource struggles, real life conflict between countries, people, groups of people, ethnic groups states, countries. It's just all very like, okay, real. So I really enjoy that.
Paul Smith (32:23):
Wow. Well guys, you know what, we are rounding third and heading home. So I want to ask you guys to give just a 32nd, one minute commercial about the programs that you are in. For those who are listening right now and saying, you know what, they said some really cool stuff, and maybe I should be in, maybe I should apply to the Stephanie Tubs Jones program or maybe maybe to the Louis Stokes program or maybe to Minority Clerkship Program. So we're gonna start over here. Mm-Hmm. <Affirmative> with the Stephanie Tubs Jones Summer Legal Adventure. Tell somebody why they should do this program.
Lyndia Zheng (32:52):
The best thing I can say about the Stephanie Tubs Jones Summer Legal Adventure is that it is very beginner friendly as a high schooler. I think that is a culture that has been pushed on high schoolers a lot, is to know what you wanna do, know where you're going, starting high school, and then you have college applications and all those things coming up. And sometimes something I've struggled with. It's just not knowing what you wanna go into and not knowing your passion. Yet. The Stephanie Tubbs Jones program, what it does is that it introduces you to so many different fields of law. It introduces you to so many different people, whether that be people who are currently practicing law or people who are in the program with you and share similar interests and it's low commitment. It's one week, you don't, it doesn't take a fee on like a lot of pre-college programs, which are like so much money to just to learn. The best thing about it is that you get to explore so much and a very little amount of time, and it will guide you through your decisions on whether this is something that you wanna do or something that you're not interested in.
Paul Smith (34:01):
Fantastic. Thank you. Same question. We're going over here to Megan.
Meagan Holloway Ragland (34:06):
Getting a job your first year is hard. So if you have the ability to do this program, most definitely do it. It's a great opportunity. You're able to be put in front of employers who care about diverse students. Students from diverse backgrounds. They don't consider your G P A, which could be an obstacle for a lot of diverse students, especially people with like low income or racial minorities or things like that. Because for a lot of us, we don't know anything. This is our first time. We don't have family members to kind of guide us or tell us how to do this thing. So a lot of us are just really figuring out during the first year, and our G P A sometimes reflect that. Okay. And I think that the Minority Clerkship program kind of gives you the ability to show your worth outside of G P A, which I think is really important because your G P A isn't really indicative. It may be indicative of some things, but not everything. Definitely not how good of an attorney you have the potential to be. So I think it's just a fantastic opportunity to be put in front of these people and to be connected with employers that care enough to participate in it.
Paul Smith (35:28):
Thank you so much. Now, Marissa, please give us a little blurb on why somebody should apply to the Lewis Oaks Scholars Program.
Marissa Blackman (35:36):
You should apply to the Lewis Stokes Scholar program because for one, it has taught me a lot about myself and my work ethic, but also it gives you an opportunity to be around people that you would not run into on the street or in your local Walmart, <laugh>. You get to be around people that you would hear about and not just people that you would see. So take in everything, take advantage of it, and also use these people as contacts. The program is also really good for professional development, and it has taught me how to definitely be a better learner and a better teacher as of did this year. So definitely apply to the program.
Paul Smith (36:15):
Wow. This has been a great conversation. I want to thank Marissa, Megan, and Lydia for your great insights and for telling us about your programs. Once again, everybody, these programs are available through the Cleveland Metropolitan Bar Association. Once again, I'm Paul Smith and it's been a pleasure. Thank you. We're signing off.