Mindfulness isn't just some fancy fad – it’s like a secret weapon for your brain, and science totally vouches for it! Get ready to dive into the world of mindfulness with none other than the experts themselves. Join Lori Wald, the former CMBA Mental Health and Wellness Chair and a certified mindfulness pro, along with the current Chair, Regan Sieperda. Together, they offer some basics of mindfulness and offer savvy tips and tricks to infuse a dash of zen into your daily grind.
Mindfulness isn't just some fancy fad – it’s like a secret weapon for your brain, and science totally vouches for it! Get ready to dive into the world of mindfulness with none other than the experts themselves. Join Lori Wald, the former CMBA Mental Health and Wellness Chair and a certified mindfulness pro, along with the current Chair, Regan Sieperda. Together, they offer some basics of mindfulness and offer savvy tips and tricks to infuse a dash of zen into your daily grind.
Becky Ruppert McMahon (00:05):
Hi, I am Becky Rupert McMahon, chief Executive at the Cleveland Metropolitan Bar Association. Welcome to another edition of the Cleveland Metropolitan Bar Association's. My bar story. Throughout 2023, the C N B A will be hosting a series of podcasts that have created a living legacy in honor of our 150th anniversary. We'll be bringing you stories from the women and men within our bar membership who have truly made bar history. Now let's get started with another bar story.
Regan Regan Sieperda (00:36):
Hi, I'm Reagan Sieperda.
Lori Wald (00:39):
And I am Lori Wald. And it's nice to meet you, Reagan. So it's
Regan Regan Sieperda (00:43):
So nice to meet you, Lori, in person. I know we had a chance to talk before meeting
Lori Wald (00:47):
Today. It's very nice.
Regan Regan Sieperda (00:48):
And what do you do currently, Lori?
Lori Wald (00:51):
I am a mindfulness meditation coach and facilitator, which means that I teach all kinds of people to do mindfulness techniques. My favorite being meditation. I have taught lawyers, I've done some CLEs for lawyers, but frequently with lawyers, I can't use the M word because it freaks them out.
Regan Regan Sieperda (01:13):
Meditation, yes.
Lori Wald (01:15):
Being the arm word. Scary word. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Regan Regan Sieperda (01:17):
How long have you been doing that?
Lori Wald (01:19):
So, I've been doing it since about 20 15, 16 ish. I actually was talking to a friend of my son's who went to Northwestern Law School, and in his conflicts negotiation class, he had a professor named Len Kin, who's well known in this field. And he taught mindfulness meditation to his students. As part of learning how to negotiate more successfully.
Regan Regan Sieperda (01:46):
You were an attorney Yes. Before you became
Lori Wald (01:49):
Yes, I was a debtor's attorney for about 20 years. Yeah.
Regan Regan Sieperda (01:53):
Yeah. So this is a big switch for you then?
Lori Wald (01:55):
Yes. This is a big switch. Yeah. This is a big switch from that. Yeah. But it's, it's something I really enjoy doing as, you know, and we'll talk about more. It's something that's really important and necessary for lawyers and something I'm very devoted to.
Regan Regan Sieperda (02:09):
Well, that's always good to hear. I think as lawyers, we always need a little bit more mindfulness as we go about our day, and it's probably something we don't think about consciously as we proceed through our day.
Lori Wald (02:19):
Right. And I don't know why that is, because we should <laugh>. It should be taught in law school, but we'll get to that. So, Reagan, tell me what you do and how you got to Cleveland.
Regan Regan Sieperda (02:29):
I am a trial attorney at Nurenberg Paris. I passed the bar in 2020. I went to law school actually in Florida, and when I was in law school, I founded our mental health and wellness committee down there. So after I passed the bar up here, I knew that it would be my calling to, you know, join the mental health and Wellness committee at the Cleveland Metropolitan Bar Association. You know, I've been being a trial attorney and now I'm the co-chair of the Mental Health and Wellness Committee, and I'm really excited for all of our new initiatives we're gonna be putting into place. And, you know, in integrating what I learned through being the chair into my practice,
Lori Wald (03:06):
I'm so excited to see what you're going to do. And I'm a past chair of the Mental Health and Wellness Committee. Oh, that's at the Bar Association. So
Regan Regan Sieperda (03:13):
I'm sitting with a great right now, <laugh>,
Lori Wald (03:16):
We can say that. Sure.
Regan Regan Sieperda (03:18):
I'm a trial attorney, which means know mm-hmm. <Affirmative> in general. We're getting ready for lawsuits. We're in the courtroom during trial. We're locked in, we're working countless hours day and night. So I'm really excited to hear any tips and tricks you might have for not just trial attorneys, but for all lawyers and all legal professionals as well.
Lori Wald (03:41):
I'm excited to do that. And I know that lawyers, like I said, are often very nervous to think about mindfulness. They think that we're just gonna be sitting around with patchouli and flowy long robes, <laugh>, <laugh>,
Regan Regan Sieperda (03:55):
But you don't do that.
Lori Wald (03:56):
<Laugh>. We can do that, but we don't have to do that. And I actually have never done that. What I think is really important, and we don't really get to, at least when I went to law school, which is a long time ago, we didn't get to it, and things are changing a bit, but it's so important to have a constructive relationship with your thoughts. And as lawyers, we love our thoughts. We love to be smart. I look when as you're talking, I'm figuring out how I'm gonna say something really smart. I'm not even listening to you probably, I'm just thinking, I'm just thinking about what I'm gonna say next. And it's really important to be cognizant of that. I, I won't even say it helps your mental health because I'm not qualified to say that, although I know wink wink that it does. But it's, it's important to, even as you're preparing for a case or you're in front of a judge or you're negotiating with someone, or a colleague or family member, it's really important to be able to listen attentively, to know what's happening in your body as you're listening, what's pushing your buttons, and then to be able to respond as opposed to reacting.
Regan Regan Sieperda (05:03):
As you look back on your legal career as now a certified mindfulness facilitator, what are some aspects of your legal career that you wish you would've known knowing what you know now?
Lori Wald (05:19):
One thing that I actually learned from the, the lawyer who trained me that I have taken with me, and it, it, it really dovetails really nicely into what we're talking about, is that he told me when I would get a phone call from a client or from opposing counsel, I didn't necessarily need to take the call as soon as it came in. And that was back in the day, we didn't even use cell phones. Then we, you know, just like <laugh>, you hit the Rolodex and all that. And he told me, you know, call back when you're ready to talk. I learned that as a lawyer, and I've taken that with me for all these years. And it really goes very much with what we're saying is you, and especially now with electronic communication, and every time an email comes in or a text message buzzes, you don't have to necessarily respond the second it comes up, it seems like an emergency. And the Silicon Valley people are smart and they make those little bingy sounds to instigate your nervous system. But it's not necessarily true that we have to respond, react immediately.
Regan Regan Sieperda (06:32):
I printed out some statistics that I brought with me today, <laugh>, and this was a study that was done by the American lawyer this year, which states that 71.1% of lawyers surveyed had anxiety, which is a 5% increase from 2022. 38.2% stated that they were depressed, which is up 35% since 2022. And 31.2% stated that they had other mental health issues, which is up approximately 15% from 2022. Do you think that binging that you're alluding to right now, I mean, I completely agree with you. We are very accessible to everyone. We're accessible to clients, and, you know, we pride ourselves on being available to clients mm-hmm. <Affirmative>, because we know how important it is. But do you think that because of some of that, at least that could be the cause of certain anxieties?
Lori Wald (07:28):
Well, I know it absolutely changes your nervous system when you hear that begging. And not just that, but anxiety is contagious.
Regan Regan Sieperda (07:36):
That's scary.
Lori Wald (07:37):
Yeah. And it is, clients tend to be nervous. Right. They don't, they've never been through this situation before. As an attorney. You may have been through it a lot of times, but clients don't really know what's gonna happen. Normally we see people when they're in very difficult circumstances. We're not trained in law school to deal with that. We're not social workers, at least most of us aren't. So we don't know how to deal with that. So when you get, whether it's an electronic notification or you're in person and someone is anxious, it affects you. Yeah. It just makes you anxious. On the other hand, being calm is, is also contagious. Yeah. So if you can maintain your demeanor of calmness, that helps your clients or whoever else you're talking to. I
Regan Regan Sieperda (08:23):
Will say this till the cows come home, I love my job. Part of the reason that I love my job is I love waking up in the morning and helping people. You know, I think it's a wonderful self satisfying thing. On the flip side, as a young attorney specifically, I think that there are some innate anxieties which come along with that, which are, am I doing this correctly? And I found that there are certain resources that I've been able to use as a young attorney, which have been able to help me mentally get through the day when these are experiences I absolutely haven't gone through. And one of those is mindfulness. And I know we kind of spoke about grounding on the phone. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>, can you kind of explain what the,
Lori Wald (09:06):
Listen Sure.
Regan Regan Sieperda (09:06):
To the listeners what grounding is.
Lori Wald (09:08):
Let me first say mindfulness. We keep using that word. Mindfulness is an awareness of your present experience as it is not as you prefer it to be with some compassion and with some creativity, I would say. So when we talk about being grounded, we mean being in touch with your physical body in the present space. Like knowing what it, what it is that you're feeling. Like if it is that you're feeling anxious, what exactly does that mean? Does that mean that your stomach is squeezy? Does it mean that your jaw is really tight? Does it mean <laugh>? She shaking up. You're looking at
Regan Regan Sieperda (09:47):
Me clench right now. <Laugh>.
Lori Wald (09:51):
Right. We all know. So, but if you put your feet on the floor and you really notice that you're sitting, and maybe if you're listening to this podcast, even if you're driving or whatever you're doing, you can just really notice, do you feel warm? Do you feel cool? Is your jaw clenched? Are you gripping the steering wheel? But what is that? That's what it means just to ground yourself. At least that's what it means to me. One of the things that I found fascinating when we did talk is that we're talking about electronic distractions. But you found a way to use electronics for good, not evil. Yeah. <Laugh>. So I, I think that's something that's important for you to share.
Regan Regan Sieperda (10:28):
Yeah. So while I never have my text message notifications on, it might scare the living daylights out of people to hear this. Obviously there are certain people I allow them to come through, you know, whether it's my mom, my dad, some of my bosses, <laugh>, those ones will come through. However, the other ones, they just are distracting to me and they create anxiety. If it's a client text or it's a client call, I'll see those. But in general, I have my notifications off just because it does, it creates an uneasiness within me to hear that and feel innately that I need to respond immediately. Even if I don't, somebody could be asking me what I had for dinner last night. And at that point, my anxiety, something within me tells me, Reagan, you have to answer that to get around that. I just turned my notifications off because it's not worth it for me. It's
Lori Wald (11:23):
So great to be aware of that and to be aware of what will tweak your nervous system and to know that there is really something that you could do about it. The other thing that I was really interested in and is harnessing an app, because there are so many apps out there where you can listen to, if you wanna go so far as to listen to a meditation oh yeah. Online that, and so would you talk about that? Yeah.
Regan Regan Sieperda (11:48):
So I have been, I started doing meditation when I was in law school. I created it as a part of my morning routine. I would wake up, make a glass of lemon water because it makes me feel very healthy to do that. And then I would listen to a meditation on the Calm app. Now the calm app is great because it has some shorter meditations and it has some longer meditations. And this is not, this podcast is not sponsored by the Calm app. It's just something that I use. But what it has is it has selections that says, today I'm feeling anxious, or I'm trying to get to sleep. Or something for a mood booster. Things of that nature where they're categorized, depending on how you're feeling. And those can be very, very, very helpful. I usually do the five minute ones, but I know that some meditations can go up to an hour. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>, I don't usually have the time for those. Right. But I do feel different after I sit through a meditation and they focus on, and I also do a lot of yoga. They focus on being cognizant of your breath. In certain instances, when I'm feeling overwhelmed, I will put on a 32nd meditation, get it in, get it out, get my breathing regulated, then dive back into what I need to do.
Lori Wald (13:08):
That's great. So I know that you mentioned you wanted some little tips for what, what you can do to get yourself more grounded and be more mindful. Yeah. So absolutely. This is something, it just comes to mind. It's so easy. I'm talking about being responsive, not reactive, but when you're with someone or on the phone with someone, the first thing is that you notice that you're getting agitated. And it's important to know that, that's why I like people to ma to meditate. Because you, even when you're sitting with no distractions, you can get I, yeah. Very easy to get agitated because your thoughts start going right. Yeah. But an easy way to get your nervous system back online is just to take a sip of water.
Regan Regan Sieperda (13:49):
Yeah.
Lori Wald (13:49):
It gets you back online. And it also puts a pause in. So if someone's expecting you to answer and you just take a sip of water, gives you a break for a minute. Yeah. And it might be an, it might be long enough to get yourself back together again.
Regan Regan Sieperda (14:00):
That's a really good tip. And that's easy. Everybody can do that.
Lori Wald (14:04):
Yeah. It's really easy. Another thing, well, I wanna veer off here just for a second. 'cause We're talk, we are talking about meditation a little bit. A lot of people say they can't meditate because they have, their thoughts are too fast. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. So I just want people to understand that meditation is not about stopping your thoughts, it's about developing a more constructive relationship with your thoughts. So when you say Reagan, that you do a five minute meditation, that's great. Thank you <laugh>. And I would also say that the more times you get to distracted while you're sitting trying to focus on your breath, or you know, be very calm, whatever it is, the more times you get distracted, the better. Because it just gives you more opportunity to practice. Yeah. So we don't have to be good at meditating. We could be very mediocre meditators, but still get a lot of benefit from that.
Regan Regan Sieperda (14:57):
Well, thank you. Yes.
Lori Wald (14:58):
You're welcome.
Regan Regan Sieperda (14:59):
I know that we talked on the phone, I differentiated some of the ways that I am able to, and this isn't really mindfulness focused, but I told you that some of the things I view important as number one is meditating, having a healthy outlet. Number two, getting your physical energy out. Mm-Hmm. <Affirmative>. So you have somewhere to put all that energy, whether it be anxious, whether it be happy, whether it be sad, and then having a sport support system as well. Right. Which I'm very, very lucky, and I talked to you about this on, on the phone. You know, there have been instances where I've been very anxious. As I said, as a young attorney, you're exposing yourself to new experiences. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>, you don't know if what you're doing is right and you're just trying to do the best that you can. And I remember it was after a deposition that I thought that I had done just horribly wrong. You know? Yes. Everything that could along
Lori Wald (15:54):
I know that was wrong.
Regan Regan Sieperda (15:56):
Yep. I'm one of those people who's very, very hard on myself. I'm very perfectionistic. So it probably wasn't near as bad as what I thought. One of the partners came into my office and he told me, he said, you can't be perfect all the time. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>, you can't be, you just keep trying to do your best. You're fine. You can do it. Keep going. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. And that is exactly what I needed to hear to get grounded again. Because sometimes you do need that support from a third party to tell you, Hey, get out of your own head. Right. And, and focus on, on not what you did, but how you're gonna move forward. And I think that that resonates with other attorneys, not just young attorneys, is sometimes we can feel a bit defeated. And sometimes you do have to rely on that support system.
Lori Wald (16:44):
Well, we're in a competitive business, there's no doubt about it. There's winners and losers, and it's really tough to find the compassion that you need. I think another truly, maybe the most important aspect of medi, of a mindfulness meditation practice is learning to find compassion for yourself. So I had a teacher that would tell me, treat yourself like you would treat your best friend.
Regan Regan Sieperda (17:07):
Yeah. I've heard that. If
Lori Wald (17:09):
You can sit in meditation for a couple of minutes and you're like saying to yourself as we all do, ugh, you're doing it wrong. You're not good at it. But you can learn to find some compassion for yourself, even if you're just faking it for a while. Like, it's okay. You're gonna get it. I believe in you. And to, to learn to have some compassion for yourself is probably one of the most valuable things that any lawyer can have.
Regan Regan Sieperda (17:34):
I've been told by mentors and by partners at my firm, and they've just said, give yourself some grace. You're learning. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>, you know, you're, you're doing well. And in my mind, because of anxieties, I'm thinking, no, it's not perfect. It's not good. Right. And so I think it's really important, like you're saying, take a step back, have a sip of water and ground myself to not only level out to say, but to also appreciate what I'm doing when I'm doing it and being in the that moment.
Lori Wald (18:09):
Yeah. That's so, I mean, that's such a great way to put it, to appreciate what you're doing. It's easier said than done. Yeah. Right. <laugh>, you know, like people just say like, just be proud of yourself. You graduated law school, you did great. But you have to really practice that. Do
Regan Regan Sieperda (18:24):
You have any tips for that?
Lori Wald (18:25):
So I have a story. I have a story, and I think it will resonate. There's a well-known meditation teacher. Her name's Shauna Shapiro. And she went to a retreat, I dunno, somewhere in India, perhaps <laugh>. There were lots. There were like, you know, monks. And she, she, so she's got this retreat, no one speaks English, and she looks around and everyone else is meditating. Then they all look serene and tranquil. And they're just sitting for hours and hours and she is not able to do it. And finally a monk comes who speaks English, and she says, you know, I can't do this. I gotta get out of here. Everyone else can do it. I can't do it. And he said, oh, I see you're practicing frustration, <laugh>, and I see you're practicing aggravation. And you know, we get really good at what we practice.
Regan Regan Sieperda (19:13):
Wow.
Lori Wald (19:14):
So we can, we can just practice being kind to ourselves. Yeah. It's hard. Yeah.
Regan Regan Sieperda (19:20):
Very. You
Lori Wald (19:20):
Know, it's, I'm not saying it just like, oh, just, you know, be nice to yourself. It's not, it's not easy because we're not used to it. Especially lawyers. Especially if you survive law school. Yeah. Right. You don't get a lot of, you know, pats on the back just for trying <laugh> no
Regan Regan Sieperda (19:36):
<Laugh>.
Lori Wald (19:38):
So we do have to learn, we have to practice, we have to practice having compassion for ourselves. And there's a way to do that, just to notice when you're being harsh to yourself and then to say, oh, take a breath here. You know, have a sip of water. Do a little grounding practice. Notice where I'm at. Any of your senses that you, you know, touching something. That's what I
Regan Regan Sieperda (19:59):
Told her I do. Right. When I am nervous or I'm anxious, Uhhuh <affirmative>, what I'll do is I'll list something that I can see. Yes. List something I can hear. Yes. List something I can taste, list something I smell. And you know, I use all my senses because it's a very good grounding technique. Somebody taught it to me years ago. And that's one of the main things that's able to help me. Now, I might have to start taking sips of water, because that seems much easier. <Laugh>, than,
Lori Wald (20:24):
Well, in addition. In addition. In addition.
Regan Regan Sieperda (20:28):
Absolutely. Yeah. But that's something that I've been practicing for a long time, and I find it to be very, very grounding. Because what you're doing is you're focusing on being in the physical moment as opposed to what's going on in your head as I think you alluded to earlier. You know, being cognizant of where you're at physically and pulling your mind to what's going on around you, and realizing that Right. Things are happening around you. It's not all in your head. Right. As I think lawyers have a tendency to do, particularly when they're up late, thinking about a case, if they're wondering whether they're going to hit a deadline, if they're just mm-hmm. <Affirmative> exhausted, you know, taking those couple of moments to realize where they're at, giving themselves some grace using their senses, <laugh>, to kind of just be cognizant that the thing going on in their head might not be as Right. Earth shattering as as we might think. It
Lori Wald (21:23):
Just because you think it doesn't make it true. Yeah.
Regan Regan Sieperda (21:26):
<Laugh>, you're absolutely right about that. You're absolutely right about
Lori Wald (21:30):
That. And it, particularly, I, and I think I did say this to you earlier, whatever you're thinking at two in the morning, don't believe it.
Regan Regan Sieperda (21:37):
Okay.
Lori Wald (21:38):
<Laugh>, you are not reliable at two in the morning. Okay. <laugh>.
Regan Regan Sieperda (21:41):
That's, that's, that's good. That's good to know. So why did you decide to be chair of the mental health committee when you were
Lori Wald (21:49):
Oh, so practicing.
Lori Wald (21:50):
I don't know that I ever agreed. I think <laugh>, I mentioned this before the podcast, I just got, I was on the mental health and wellness committee. I wasn't practicing law at the time. But I had come on because I was interested in teaching lawyers to meditate. And then the next thing I knew, I got a letter congratulating me <laugh>. And I was like, well, how is this gonna work? I mean, I'm, I wanna teach people meditation. And I think it was Carrie and she, she said, well, great. We love that idea. I was like, okay. So we did it. We did it.
Regan Regan Sieperda (22:26):
I guess I'll do it. Yeah. Well, that's nice that you could probably bring some of the things that you knew as a mindfulness facilitator into the C MBAs that you were able to, you know, give some of this knowledge to attorneys, you know, as you're giving us right now.
Lori Wald (22:40):
It, it was, it was a really good experience. And I will share that. We were having in-person meetings at the time. This was pre Zoom, pre pre pandemic. When I started the meeting, I would sit, we would sit for two minutes Wow. Before I started the meeting, meeting. And I really love doing that. And I still, in other organizations, I still really like to do that at the beginning of a meeting, just two minutes. Because, you know, you're, when you're getting to a meeting, especially, you know, in person, everyone's like rushing to get in and you're, you know, thinking about all the things you didn't get done and the things you have to get done next. And I just like that to take that transition time so that when we start the meeting, we can really focus and be productive.
Regan Regan Sieperda (23:20):
That's a really good idea. That's a really good idea. Thank you. So they're being grounded even before you, even before they start. Yeah.
Lori Wald (23:28):
And they, and they feel ridiculous, you know, especially lawyers, they're like, okay, we're just gonna sit for two minutes. And they're like, oh God, two minutes. You know, how much can I bill for that? Their
Regan Regan Sieperda (23:37):
Apple watches are buzzing the entire time as they sit in silence. That's a really great idea though. Yeah. But that too, it gives you a sense of clarity going into something I would assume.
Lori Wald (23:45):
It just focuses you, it lets you get into that new space. I had speaking of that two minute, a friend who was partnered a law firm, had kids, you know, the whole catastrophe. And every day when he got home from work, he pulled into his garage. He would sit in his car for two minutes before he'd enter the house.
Regan Regan Sieperda (24:05):
Wow.
Lori Wald (24:06):
So looking for just, it's
Regan Regan Sieperda (24:08):
Shifting. Yeah.
Lori Wald (24:08):
Toran, those transition times. If you can be aware of those transition times in your day when you go from meeting to meeting or case to case or home to work or whatever, you know, or maybe you're working at home, but you're on a zoom meeting and then you're leaving. Just those transition times are really important.
Regan Regan Sieperda (24:29):
Absolutely. Yeah. I'm floored by what you just said, because I think it's a great idea.
Lori Wald (24:33):
Oh, thank you. I have a million of 'em
Regan Regan Sieperda (24:34):
On the record, or off the record. I think that's a great idea, and I'm gonna start doing that, or trying to Yeah.
Lori Wald (24:39):
Just even a minute. Just to make that shift. Let your body make the shift. Yeah. What was it that brought you to meditation? Like how did you even consider that, oh, this might be something that would be a good thing to do? I went
Regan Regan Sieperda (24:53):
Through a stage where I was busy all the time, and my mind wasn't turning off. It just wasn't. It was mm-hmm. <Affirmative> at the office, thinking about cases, leaving the office, thinking about cases. And it's not necessarily a bad thing if it's in moderation. However, it wasn't for me. And I started to realize, you know, this along with, you know, my personal life and just trying to find peace. I just wanted some peace. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>, I said to myself, you know, if I can implement tiny little things that just give me a little bit of peace every day, I think it will. Mm-Hmm. <Affirmative> make me a little more chill. Which is hard to say as a trial attorney, you know, but, so that's why I got into, or why I've continued to do meditation. Also, a lot of yoga. I do a lot of yoga.
Regan Regan Sieperda (25:40):
About five times a week I was doing yoga mm-hmm. <Affirmative>. And people think I'm crazy when I say that, but when I'm doing it, you're focusing on your breathing, you're focusing on the movement of your breath. And as I said earlier, I think it's really important to have a physical outlet. You know, whether it's walking my dog or doing yoga or something that I started, I started crocheting. And before you ask, I'm not very good <laugh>. Okay. I'm pretty, I make a lot of washcloths because they're easy <laugh>. That's what I do. But just doing things in my life that just gives me a little bit more of peace and then relaunching into whatever I'm doing. But it's, I found that without taking that time for myself, I could not be at a hundred percent. My belief is, and obviously I'm not a trained medical professional, but I'm a big believer that you cannot give a hundred percent of your self to your work if you do not feel a hundred percent yourself.
Regan Regan Sieperda (26:39):
Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. So I put high priority on maintaining my mental health. And I, and it's hard. It's not an easy thing to do. It's not easy when you have a trial starting the next morning because all you're thinking and you're running through. Right. You're opening, you're running through, you're questioning, you're running through everything to the point where you're saying it and you're sleep, you know? Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. And it's really important. I found it to be really important to take that time for myself, even give myself little breaks where I'm just zoning out for a lack of better term and focusing on something other than that, even if it's a short period of time.
Lori Wald (27:15):
Well, I think it's amazing that you're aware because I think that, and especially as people get on in their practice and, you know, lawyers that are like this, they never figure it out. A lot of lawyers feel that they need to maintain their edge. Yeah. They have to stay like that hyper-focused and at that level all the time or something will happen. I
Regan Regan Sieperda (27:37):
Don't know how it would be sustainable.
Lori Wald (27:39):
Personally, we get into trouble.
Regan Regan Sieperda (27:40):
I don't think it would be sustainable
Lori Wald (27:42):
At all. Yeah. People get into trouble. They do. And
Regan Regan Sieperda (27:44):
That's where burnout comes in. And it is,
Lori Wald (27:46):
I, I think it's like just rampant in our profession that mm-hmm. <Affirmative>, you need to, you know, that we just think like we have to be at that competitive level, that anxious, high running level all the time. You have to bill more. You have to just beat your opponent. You have to be smarter and better. And it, yeah. There is, there is something about that with being a lawyer.
Regan Regan Sieperda (28:09):
Yeah. And for me, one of the biggest ways that my anxiety presents itself is that I question the words that I use mm-hmm. <Affirmative>, I question, did I say the right thing? Did I look the right way? And I'm, it's almost as if I'm viewing myself from a third party perspective, ruminating over things that I have done or things that I have said. And it's, you know, and it, it can cause me, and I've, in the past, it has caused me to, to spiral and to ruminate over certain things that were absolutely not a big deal at all. And that's why I'm so cognizant of it. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative> is this, I've dealt with this in the past, so what am I going to do? I'm going to go to yoga, I'm going to start crocheting. I'm going to pull myself out of that negative space. I'm going to take my dog for a walk, and if I'm in the office, I'm going to do a lap around the office. Mm-Hmm. <Affirmative>, I have a foam roller in my office. Just get some of the tension out of my body. That's awesome. So that <laugh>, so that I'm able to sit back down and get back to it.
Lori Wald (29:10):
Yeah. That's amazing. And it's remarkable that you're aware of it. I keep saying that, but it truly is because we just keep going. One other, this is pretty interesting. People find this interesting and emotion only lasts 90 seconds. Wow. That's it. Wow. Now we can keep it going. Mm-Hmm. <Affirmative>, like, we can keep getting more and more angry and like rev ourselves up over and over. But if you can sit even when, when you're in that really bad spot, anxious spot, replaying what you just, the wrong thing that you just said in your head over and over, and you get that feeling in your body just to be able to sit and notice what it is and be curious. Yeah. Just be curious. Without judging, it's pretty amazing. Everything subsides. Yeah. Everything does
Regan Regan Sieperda (29:55):
Well. And a lot of my meditations, they state that when, and even some of my yoga instructors, when we're doing Shavasana at the end of the class, you know, your, your goal is to clear your mind. The teachers on the Calm app as well as my yoga instructors, they always advise us, acknowledge the thoughts that are coming into your head. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>, acknowledge that they're there, acknowledge that they exist. They're trying to enter your calm space and then dispose of them. You can think about them in five minutes. It's given me a lot more power in my thoughts. When you're cognizant of how you're feeling, you're taking control of your emotions, even if you're not perfect at it, I would say, you know, I feel much more in control when mm-hmm. <Affirmative>, I'm able to acknowledge that a feeling is there and then dispose of it. Mm-Hmm.
Lori Wald (30:42):
<Affirmative>, or just watch it evaporate, because it will,
Regan Regan Sieperda (30:46):
One practice that I was listening to, it was a meditation. And it said, imagine you're sitting on a park bench and you're let your bias stream and a leaf falls off of a tree and it's floating down the river, and that leaf is the one thing that you're reminiscing over. It's like, watch it float away. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. And it was, it's very, very powerful when you sit there and you're thinking about it for five minutes mm-hmm. <Affirmative> and just watching it float away. And by the end of it, you feel, I feel mm-hmm. Much better. Mm-Hmm. <Affirmative>. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>, I highly suggest that app. I would suggest that app to everybody.
Lori Wald (31:20):
People love it. I know. There's, there's, it's just so thrilling to think that there are apps out there, and there's a lot, there's a lot of them. I, I've never listened to the comm apps, so I don't know, but I've always heard good things about it. Mm-Hmm. <Affirmative>, there's also an app called Insight Timer, which is a free app, and you could go on there, you could put in five minute meditation. There's all kind, there's classes, there's all kinds of things. I n Ss, I G H T, insight Timer. I love the 10% Happier. Dan Harris, who was an, he was a newscaster. He had a nervous breakdown on the air. Oh. And he started meditating. He has a book called 10% Happier. He has a podcast called 10% Happier, and he has meditations on there also that are just available. So there's, there's a lot of places to go. And
Regan Regan Sieperda (32:07):
Will you tell the listeners about what you do and
Lori Wald (32:11):
Sure. Yes. And I have a website, <laugh>
Regan Regan Sieperda (32:14):
And you have a website,
Lori Wald (32:15):
Coincidentally. And I'm also, I have a few meditations on Insight Timer that you could find. And then my website is nothing doing daily.com. And I have meditations on there, and I have essays and I have information and all kinds of things.
Regan Regan Sieperda (32:31):
Best practices,
Lori Wald (32:33):
Best practices and
Regan Regan Sieperda (32:34):
Best practices for mindfulness and Yes. In, in practicing.
Lori Wald (32:39):
Yeah. And you get good at what you practice. Right. Yeah.
Regan Regan Sieperda (32:42):
I'm a big, big, big proponent for that. Well,
Lori Wald (32:45):
Well, this is fun. I know. I, I feel like maybe this is the fir the first part of something, and I don't know what that something is, but this is great. I, I think the Bar Association should do mindfulness meditation podcasts. Right. <laugh>. I have all kinds of ideas. Yeah.
Regan Regan Sieperda (33:03):
It'll just be us whispering into the microphone. <Laugh>. Yeah.
Lori Wald (33:07):
<Laugh>,
Regan Regan Sieperda (33:07):
Thanks so much for speaking with me, Lori, it was a pleasure getting to meet you.
Lori Wald (33:11):
It was a pleasure to meet you too, Reagan. Thank you. I'm so excited that you meditate and that you're at Nuremberg Paris, and taking laps around the office when you need it. And the foam rollers just, you have, you have a lot of great ideas. Really.
Regan Regan Sieperda (33:23):
Thank you. Thank you so much. Thank
Becky Ruppert McMahon (33:25):
You for joining us for today's My Bar story. To hear other bar stories or to check out any of the CBAs other podcasts, please go to Spotify, apple, or wherever you get your favorite podcasts. You can also go to our website@cmetrobar.org slash podcast. We hope you listen again soon.